|
Posted by phil-news-nospam on April 13, 2006, 12:43 am
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| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|> Pass the octet stream received from the HTTP server to the code
|> that is an implementation for it, and get back a pixel array that can be
|> given to the GUI subsystem to display on the current page. This can be
|> with GIF, JPEG, PNG, etc ... so why not SVG.
|
| Because SVG has nothing to do with the above described mechanics.
On what basis do you say this?
I know for certain that SVG can be viewed as an image. The methods for
transforming the octet stream into pixels certainly differs from that
for a format like PNG. Both formats could be viewd in hexadecimal if
you want. The fact that it _can_ be viewed in other ways does not mean
mean that this way (images) is any less valid.
| Sorry, but you seem to demonstrate some missing knowledge on the
| subject. SVG is a set of textual command arranged into XML syntacs. Say
| this is a right targeted arrow image:
|
| <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
| <!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.0//EN"
| "http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20050904/DTD/svg10.dtd">
| <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.0">
| <title>No title</title>
| <polygon
| points="159,0 209,51 159,100 159,55 103,55 58,101 0,101
| 50,51 0,0 58,0 103,45 159,45"/>
| </svg>
|
| It can be viewed as it is (as am .xml or .svg document) on a browser
| with SVG support like Firefox 1.5 or higher or Opera 7.0 or higher.
So. That doesn't mean it cannot be viewed as an image.
| It can be added directly to the document DOM tree using
| document.createElementNS (NS- because as you can see SVG doesn't share
| the default "HTML" namespace, it has its own). You don't need any
| <object> wrapper for it.
So. That doesn't mean it cannot be viewed as an image.
| I'm failing to see any sorrelation between *this* and a binary stream
| for <img>
Then I'm sorry to say but you have a very narrow view of the world.
You don't seem to comprehend that SVG can be viewed as an image.
If there is some definable way to transform any stream of data into a
renderable form under some purpose of rendering ...
examples of purpose of rendering:
1. To see the image it produces, if it is of a class to do so
2. To see the text making up its specification, if it uses text
3. To see the data stream itself, such as in hexadecimal
4. To utilize the data in other ways determined by its class.
... then why limit this? Many collections of data have many potential
purposes. In the case of SVG, only idiots living under a rock could
deny that SVG can produce images, and could be used for such purpose.
Just because YOU don't have any need to view an SVG file as an image,
do not deny this to someone else.
| If we take your above quoted statement in the most wide sense, then it
| gets too general to be usable. With the same effect we could apply it
| then to HTML itself and ask <img> to support direct HTML code
| insertion.
It is general only to the extent that someone would implement a way to
transform the data stream in an array of pixels. But this can be done
with data stream of classes like PNG and SVG.
| Because it is too an octet stream from the server (HTML source code in
| TCP/IP packets) sent to an implementation for it (HTML parser) to get
| back a pixel array (graphics context produced in the browser window).
| You have to be careful with semantic - it may bite ;-)
It seems you cannot understand this concept.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
Posted by VK on April 13, 2006, 5:15 am
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phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> |
> | phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> |> Pass the octet stream received from the HTTP server to the code
> |> that is an implementation for it, and get back a pixel array that can be
> |> given to the GUI subsystem to display on the current page. This can be
> |> with GIF, JPEG, PNG, etc ... so why not SVG.
> |
> | Because SVG has nothing to do with the above described mechanics.
>
> On what basis do you say this?
> I know for certain that SVG can be viewed as an image.
Publisher and Writer:
W: I brought you my new book!
P: About what is it?
W: She loves him but...
P: I'm very short in time today, so very briefly please.
W: It is a very sad story about love.
P: I cannot take it - Shakespeare already wrote this.
Phil and Web Standards:
W: We've got all new technologie to extend graphics context.
P: Is it still image?
W: Not at all, it is...
P: Briefly - can it be used as a still image?
W: Well, yes, but...
P: So it is new still image format. Add it to <img> and do not bother
me.
By your lexicon in this thread there are few obvious conclusion to
make:
1) As you continuously referring to <object> and <embed>, you never had
a deal with real SVG xml+svg standard. You only sew some primitive
static samples with proprietary (besides being hugely ancient) Adobe
SVG viewer.
2) By your continuous references to some misterious "octet stream" it
is obvious that even in these samples you did not bother to check the
source file nor its MIME. You just wrongly presumed that it is some
precompiled data a la .swf
And with this more than narrow knowledge packadge you dared to deploy a
long discussion about Semantics and Standards ?!
P.S. I do not count to improve your mind, but I thought necessary to
add this info here. SVG discussions are still not too numerous in
newsgroups. In case if someone will come to this thread by "SVG"
search, I don't want them to leave with a completely twisted
dellusioned idea of that SVG is.
|
|
Posted by phil-news-nospam on April 14, 2006, 5:51 pm
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|
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|> |
|> | phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|> |> Pass the octet stream received from the HTTP server to the code
|> |> that is an implementation for it, and get back a pixel array that can be
|> |> given to the GUI subsystem to display on the current page. This can be
|> |> with GIF, JPEG, PNG, etc ... so why not SVG.
|> |
|> | Because SVG has nothing to do with the above described mechanics.
|>
|> On what basis do you say this?
|> I know for certain that SVG can be viewed as an image.
|
| Publisher and Writer:
|
| W: I brought you my new book!
| P: About what is it?
| W: She loves him but...
| P: I'm very short in time today, so very briefly please.
| W: It is a very sad story about love.
| P: I cannot take it - Shakespeare already wrote this.
|
| Phil and Web Standards:
|
| W: We've got all new technologie to extend graphics context.
| P: Is it still image?
| W: Not at all, it is...
| P: Briefly - can it be used as a still image?
| W: Well, yes, but...
| P: So it is new still image format. Add it to <img> and do not bother
| me.
|
| By your lexicon in this thread there are few obvious conclusion to
| make:
| 1) As you continuously referring to <object> and <embed>, you never had
| a deal with real SVG xml+svg standard. You only sew some primitive
| static samples with proprietary (besides being hugely ancient) Adobe
| SVG viewer.
Are you presuming I'm using that?
I guess it doesn't matter much. I'm using Firefox 1.5.0.1 (and will
be switching to 1.5.0.2 soon.
| 2) By your continuous references to some misterious "octet stream" it
| is obvious that even in these samples you did not bother to check the
| source file nor its MIME. You just wrongly presumed that it is some
| precompiled data a la .swf
|
| And with this more than narrow knowledge packadge you dared to deploy a
| long discussion about Semantics and Standards ?!
You don't know what an octet stream is?
I never presumed it is precompiled.
| P.S. I do not count to improve your mind, but I thought necessary to
| add this info here. SVG discussions are still not too numerous in
| newsgroups. In case if someone will come to this thread by "SVG"
| search, I don't want them to leave with a completely twisted
| dellusioned idea of that SVG is.
SVG can be used in many ways. One of them is by supplying the octet
stream to a "black box" which is an implementation of a SVG translator
and the output can be a raw set of image pixels. This by no means says
that this is how it must be done. I'm saying it _can_ be done that way.
What I would like to see you agree to is that the standards that define
the format/syntax/semantics of SVG, as well as the standards that make
use of it (e.g. HTML, etc), should not impose any narrowing ideas on
how it can be used without a specific cause and explanation about how
such a use would cause problems. In other words, you can use it your
want and I can use it might way.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
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