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- PR = 0
- John Redmond
September 8, 2005, 5:58 am
rate this thread
The beta release of CoffeeGrail.com has occured. Initial feedback has been
positive. I now embark upon the difficult task of building traffic at the
site. Google PageRank is currently 0/10. The site has been indexed by
Google, Yahoo, MSN and AOL. No budget for advertising/promotion. Other
Thanks - John Redmond
PS: Does putting beta on the site deter traffic/word of mouth?
Re: PR = 0
It is not unusual to have a PR of "0" for several months. The word
"beta" will have no effect on PR.
But more importantly:
You have no description or keyword metatags.
The metatags you do have are not in the proper format.
What are the keywords you are trying to optimize? There is very little
text on this site for search engines to index.
Your code has some major problems.
I'm sure you will get many other comments, but you really need to learn
more HTML and do some research on search engine optimization.
Re: PR = 0
That would be http://coffeegrail.com/ presumably.
I wouldn't have even noticed the "beta" if you hadn't pointed it out.
So? At best search engines ignore them.
How so? There's nothing wrong with the meta tags that are there.
No arguments there.
Only a handful of validation errors in the HTML, though some of them
could potentially be major (you should be using HTML4.01, not 4.0, and
Strict would be better than Transitional). The CSS validated, which is
Verdana. Drop it, or at least leave the font size alone. Don't reduce
the font size to try and counteract the fact that you have chosen a
larger than normal font. Others may not have that font, or may have a
smaller font with the same name.
Why is the entire page a form? Why not just put the form element around
the actual form?
Why is it only half the width of my browser canvas? Why is every page a
Other than the width, I quite like the design/colour scheme.
I see no need for tables on that page (except maybe the form, where you
haven't used one anyway).
From a content perspective, it seems from the list of states that it is
only a US thing - it would be nice if that were mentioned.
Personally the capitalisation of every word is really annoying - it
makes it hard to read. It's fine for headings, but not normal text.
As far as search engine rankings go, probably the most important thing
is quality inbound links - other relevant, well ranked sites linking to
yours. The <title> text is also very important - you may want to work on
that - as are headings. As saz said, you have very little actual content
for the search engines to work with.
- Leonard Blaisdell
September 8, 2005, 2:21 am
Re: PR = 0
shows 9 errors. Nobody here will convince me differently than that the
better the site is written, the better your rank will be. Specifically,
how well your site is written in conformance with the W3C. Your site
will float near the top with good content and conformance to the
Probably not word of mouth, but it won't help internet traffic. The good
news is that 'coffee grail' is number one on google, so that if someone
is looking for it specifically, it's there at the top.
Re: PR = 0
Suggestion #1 - Forget about PR. It used to be a big factor, but Google
changes the rules on a monthly basis.
Suggestion #2 - There are only three things you can always count on for
SEO. Three things which will always maximize your search engine rankings:
1 - Clean, semantic code
2 - Keyword rich (but not spammy-rich) content
3 - Inbound links from related sites
Yesh, there are other things which can help to a lesser extent; you might
want to add in some meta-tags, or use Google's new sitemap system... But
in the end, the three things above will give you the most reward for
For #1: Clean up your code to increase signal-to-noise, separate style
from content, use header tags for titles, include keyword-rich alt-text
for images where applicable.
For #2: Make a list of the keywords which define your site, NOT which
keywords you wish to rank high for, proofread, search for the keywords you
chose and gather similar ones from the results which appear, learn the
line between keyword-rich and keyword-spammed and *always* err on the rich
For #3: Solicit links personally from *related* sites without using a form
letter, leave feedback if possible on the site you wish to get a link from
before asking, link to them before they link to you, and put their link on
a page with actual content (within the content if possible) rather than a
standalone links page. Don't whine if they hide your link away on an
obscure page, forget it and move on to the next site.
I recommend the W3C validator for help with #1: http://validator.w3.org
It's a great tool for "proofreading" your code, but don't feel you have to
clear up every single "error" it tells you about to get great search
engine benefits. A lot of "messy" code won't be reported by the validator
like nested tables, or <strong> being used where a heading tag should go.
Learn the basics of HTML and stick to them. The basics are search engine
friendly, it's when you get complicated that the engines lose track of
what you're trying to tell them.
For #2 and #3, well, you'll just have to work on those as best as you're
able, since the person who knows your own website the best is you :)
Hope that helps, a bit ;)
No, why should it? As long as it relates to the content and meaning of
your site, it's all good. Take the phrase "under construction" for
instance. Search for that in Google and the top results aren't pages that
are under construction, but rather pages *about* the phrase "under
construction" and its use in webpages. :)
Your content should determine your keywords, that's all.
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/orca#sear - Orca Search - PHP/MySQL site
Re: PR = 0
John Redmond wrote
Personally I don't like to see it. To me it suggests it's half-hearted,
or its just a trial, or it might not work properly.
Google seem to be quite fond of it. Their news service still carries
it, after how long, one year, two years??!
I would just leave it off. I don't think the visitor is interested if
it's beta or not, those that know what it means that is.
Plenty of times I have used Google news, I would have used it just the
same with or without the beta notice.
Why have you put it on your site?
Re: PR = 0
Nope, I think it's more to do with a fact that SEO ppl were "using" up to
date PR for analysing/abusing link/blog spamming (sadly blog spamming is
still going on phenomena for way too many). Much easier to try get idea of
pieces of algorithm if can do PR tweaking almost realtime by adding/removing
links and experimenting, much harder now when time "wait" to see PR is
counted in months. There's plenty of variables in google algo, but certain
parts are dominating ones, and PR has been that quite a long time (although
dampened lately but it still plays significant part), anchor of IBLs are
still very important too...
Anyway, there seems to be slightly different vibes from google, not anymore
as much that "do no evil" as it used to be, but then again it might be just
"feeling" because it's hard to judge what google does and stay totally
- Matt Silberstein
September 8, 2005, 3:26 pm
Re: PR = 0
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 01:58:14 GMT, in alt.www.webmaster , John Redmond
My first question is operational: why ask for state if zip is
provided? Zips do cross state boundaries (boy does that mess people
up), but it still determines location. If I were on a border I would
want to know about coffee in the next state over.
Second, the layout is clean, but it bothers me a bit. The suggestions
of making the pages the same size might help. I think the edge between
the blue and the background is a just a bit harsh for me.
Also, here is a thought. Put the form across instead of down. Then put
the results below that. It might work even better with pages the same
size. And do something about the font size and caps. Just do it all
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Re: PR = 0
GreyWyvern firstname.lastname@example.org wrote in
Target each page to specific keywords rather than aim for a single term
over the entire site. Organise your content so that each page is
concentrated on a single subject as far as possible. Outbound links to
relevant authoritative sites with relevant keywords in the link text can
help So don't build a "links page", place outbound links where they are
relevant to the content. If they aren't relevant they shouldn't really be
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
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