Blacklisting Companies

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Blacklisting Companies,

In response to some replies I would like to address some of those
issues. Regarding my seemingly novice use of this service, I am in
fact just that, a novice. I don't know if this is Usenet, Google
groups, a forum, or message board, nor do I really know the
difference. I just know this is a place were people post information
in categorized way. I acknowledge that I should at least gain a better
understanding of these things if I am to be taken seriously, and I
will make a sincere effort to do that as soon as possible.

Regarding my post being somewhat in the wrong group, there are two
valid reasons for that. The first is censorship. I tried posting both
of my messages in the proper group (blocklisting, a nicer name for
blacklisting), and the moderators were unwilling to post my
submission. In my opinion this is censorship, and a form of
suppression regarding the truth; in that there is a larger problem
than the blacklisting companies would have us know. The forum or group
in question seems to be moderated by a pro blacking staff, and it
seems clear they receive more postings asking how to get off the
blacklists than anything else. In my humble opinion, I think any
submission that is loosely related to blacklisting should be allowed
as long as it is not threatening or inclusive of profanity. In the
middle ages many books and others forms of communication were banned
by the powers that be for fear that educating the common man would
cause them to realize that they were being exploited by those in
power. Any form of censorship in regards to the truth will only cause
a delay in common sense solutions being brought in to existence; as
the saying goes, before you can address a problem, one must first
acknowledge its existence. This leads to the second reason. To make
people aware there is a problem.

Regarding the seemingly personal nature of my posts, I have read
several posts which relate to this issue by someone with the username
"Carl", and I see other people referring to other users by name in
their posts, so I thought this was acceptable. Nevertheless, I
apologize for deferring from protocol.

Regarding blacklisting and its effects on both private and cooperate
communications by way of email, it seems to be a well known fact that
blacklisting whole blocks of IP addresses is commonly used to apply
pressure to local ISP's regarding their status as being proliferators
of spam via access to their servers by those engaging in  such
activities. The net result of this is to punish innocent parties who
have no knowledge or involvement in spam related activities, and can
lead to the departure of legitimate paying customers from said ISP;
thereby causing financial hardship. Often time's substantial effort is
made by ISP's to adhere to blacklisting companies standards regarding
spammers, yet they find these blacklisting companies difficult to work
with at best. Even after bending over backwards to please them and
meet their expectations, they often still find themselves being
blacklisted. One company imposes fines on persons and companies they
deem to be supporters of spam, having made them self's judge, jury,
and executioner in the world of cyberspace.

Many of these companies have websites that are very restrictive and
confusing to the average person, and many people are blacklisted
without having any knowledge of the technical terminology used to
produce a wall of separation between the blacklisting company and
those private citizens who find themselves blacklisted. Furthermore
many blacklisting companies give no indication as to the duration of
their imposed penalty, and offer no clear way to resolve the matter.
Often times being understaffed and unable to assist if so inclined.
Though at least one site all but mocks those blacklisted and
challenges them to sue if they don't like it. One must go beyond
legalities as these are subject to change, and instead look upon the
intent and motivation of those running such companies. Considering the
blacklisting of large blocks of IP addresses, it is much like finding
ten people in a room and saying that one of them is a criminal, but
since we don't know who it is, we will just punish the entire lot of
them. This is the same mentality that the Third Reich used in the
implementation of there nefarious order, and is in this case counter
productive to the free use of the internet.

Despite what anyone may think, I am not against blacklisting spammers,
I only point out that current methods are seriously flawed. In a
recent test it was found that a blacklisting company was successful in
blocking 40% of spam, but they also blocked 44% of legitimate email.
If this is true, then they are doing more harm then good, and it is a
bit like killing a fly with a sledgehammer.

For the most part it seems these companies have virtually no
oversight, accountability, or common standards, which lends itself to
issues relating to abuse of power. The bottom line is that new laws
need to be interacted which produce uniform and logical standards
regarding the use of blacklists, as these companies for the most part
seem unwilling to address these issues them self's.

Several weeks ago I tried to send my attorney a Microsoft Word DOC by
way of email; it never arrived despite multiple attempts using several
diffent accounts. This is what led to the subsequent discovery of
these issues.

Once again let me apologize for any unintentional offence that prior
postings may have caused, as that was not the intent. I consider the
free exchange of ideas to be far more important than political
correctness, which I find stifling and wholly unnecessary.

The following website will show many actual cases of individuals and
businesses being negatively affected by these matters: CastleCops -

Although my memory fails me, a quick web search for "blacklisting
class action suit" will reveal an online petition of people trying to
sue these companies (I've seen it). Another search will show that
there is a lawsuit pending against an Australian blacklisting company
which seeks damages of around $24,000, the case is still pending. Once
gain let me apologize for the lack of references; I just don't have
the time. This writing represents my own views and personal opinions
and is more or less true to the best of my knowledge. Some of it came
from what appear to be creditable postings at the "blocklisting group"
by seemingly knowledgeable individuals.

Funny footnote: In one definition, the word Reich has a meaning of
(rehearsal). Was the Third Reich just a rehearsal of what's to come?

Re: Blacklisting Companies

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Nothing wrong with being a novice - we all had to start somewhere.

A couple of pointers for when posting:

1. Reply to an existing thread instead of starting a new one. If you start a
new thread (so post without replying) then other readers don't have any idea
what went before. If you instead reply to an existing post, i.e. one of the
posts in one of the threads you've already started, then the context is

2. cross-post, don't multi-post. Multi-posting is when you send the same or
similar posts individually to more than one newsgroup. Cross-posting is when
you send the same post to more than one newsgroup at the same time. The
difference between the two is that if you've cross-posted then a reply in
one newsgroup will also show up in the others to which it was posted. So
from a visibility and sharing of information point of view cross-posting is
preferred over multi-posting. How you do this via google groups I don't
know, but I assume they provide the facility. Occasionally multi-posting is
inevitable (for example when someone points out an alternative newsgroup)
but in the main try to avoid it.


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Carl? who is Carl? I saw a reference to "Carl" in your post to
24hoursupport.helpdesk, but that wasn't in reply to anyone's post. Which
newsgroup did you post to when you got the reply from "Carl"? When
addressing an individual you should have posted a reply to that post (so
adding a post to the existing thread) instead of starting a new post in a
completley different newsgroup. The chances are that "Carl" isn't even aware
that you have referred to him in at least two different newsgroups.


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This sheds different light on it. As I've said in a previous thread I don't
believe you (individually) are blacklisted (or that it should matter if you
are because you are sending via a third party and it is them who would need
to have been blacklisted). It would seem most unlikly (although possible)
that several different email accounts/providers were blocked - unless it is
something in those emails which is being blocked. Is it possible that your
pc has been compromised and that you are inadvertantly sending out a virus
with all of your emails and its either virus/spam filters at account (yahoo,
aol etc) that is then blocking it or a spam filter at your recipient's end?
I suggest you check your anti-virus.

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Brian Cryer

Re: Blacklisting Companies

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MaladjustedEx isn't listening. Haven't you noticed him posting the same
thing over and over?

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Carl runs the FiveTen Software Group's DNS blacklists. He is about 45 minutes
from me, up in the San Bernardino Mountains here in SoCal.

Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA     PGP:0xE3AE35ED
Geek-for-hire. Details:

Re: Blacklisting Companies

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I hadn't, but I have now. All over the place ...

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So somewhat further away for me (grin). One mystery solved. Thanks.
Brian Cryer

Re: Blacklisting Companies wrote: wrote:
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   This is Usenet, it has been around longer than the web.


  Now, ask yourself this question. If I were a busy technical person,
would I want to read all this?

Now, welcome to the real world of email. Nobody is going to guarantee
your email delivery, you are after all, using a free email service.

   Now, you know that you are being blacklisted by 510, what have you
done to resolve that. Did you first do a little research on your own
about that.

  If you had, you would have run across comments like these:

<URL: />

  and that would have gotten you here:

<URL: />

   All of us have had blacklist problems at some time or another. It's
just an artifact of most of the traffic being SPAM and that there is no
current solution. Deal with it and move on...


  I just know this is a place were people post information
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