Are menus importat ?

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I've been reading this group for about a year now.  I'm strictly a
retired amateur who is fascinated with this profession of web

 On a few occasions I have gotten some help here with my CSS problems.
Asking help with a problem is not what  I solicit today,  but I am
curious about the attitudes of professionals regarding what I consider
to be one of the most important parts of a web page.  ie -- the menu
or links bar.

I feel that the more the visitor can learn about the site with the
least amount of effort,  the better.  And what I hate most,  as a
visitor, is having to run around in circles clicking on a dozen links.

I just stumbled on this site last week and am much impressed with
their menu and the amount of information offered.

Eric Meyer impressed me a few months back with his pure css pop ups.

The question --  Am I the only who thinks this is important  ?   I see
so little of good menus while surfing the web.

Re: Are menus importat ?

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:36:49 -0400, F.C.James wrote:
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The <noscript> section in Slate is there, but it is *useless*.
I'm not sure why they bothered at all.  Maybe just a place holder for a
later development.  That page is difficult for anyone who is browsing
without javascript.

Meyer's script is clearly quite different.  Just look at his source, and
compare it to the Slate source.  Look particularly at the section at Slate
that, with unintended humor, says
The Slate source is unreadable (in any reasonable amount of time). How
would you like to keep up the Slate source? Even if it were generated
server side? It is just about the most wretched crock I've ever seen -- at
least for the people who have to keep it up.

Meyer's whole page is right there for easy display by even the most
rudimentary text browser, and would be easy to modify.

But I really think either page could be re-designed to simply load
another page for each sub-menu.  Even on dialup, it would take only a
moment more time, and would be so much more clear.   Visitors could
bookmark the submenus for direct access. The difference would be a slight
blink between pages and no (absolutely immediate) preview of available
sublinks. Not a bad trade-off at all.

Re: Are menus importat ?

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:36:49 -0400

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 And leading from this page is my own favourite page:

 I have always thought this the most elegant and artistically inspired


Andrew's Corner /

Re: Are menus importat ?


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That is very nice.   I stumbled on Meyer quite by accident, and I sure
like the way he does menus.     I wish more people used his idea for
displaying the contents.

That brings me to another issue.    If I were a young person starting
out to be a career designer,  I would be concerned that no matter what
I did that was original and unique -- as appears to be  Meyer's case
--  I could not hide my coding.   If you found a new formula for a
commercial chemical product,  you could patent it.

 Imagine if Meyer could hide his code,  what he could demand for
payment from people who wished to use it ?  Will there ever come a day
when the CSS could be cached in such a way as not to be accessible to
visitors ?

As I said,  this field fascinates me.   I'm no scholar,   but in my
view,  web design requires a combination of two abilities seldom seen
together.  A strong artistic flair and a  reasonably high
intelligence level.  

Re: Are menus importat ?

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:19:08 -0400, F.C.James wrote:
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You cannot hide anything of what is sent to the browser.  However, if you
are a server side coder, all of your code that generates the pages is
hidden from web surfers.       Any preprocessing code
and CMS code that generates static pages is also a blind spot for surfers
-- they just get to see the pages you've uploaded.  

Two sites may appear almost identical to visitors, but one might drive the
web author nuts with trying to keep it up to date, the other would only
require a bit of text change or such on occasion from its author(s).  
Happily, many good systems for doing this are in the public domain.

Re: Are menus importat ?

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:51:43 GMT, mbstevens

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That got over my head.   I'm just now getting use to beginners CSS. My
guess is that something like Java will one day figure a way to conceal
a lot more than now.     Maybe on the order of a cable TV  scrambler.

Let me ask you  this.  Is it possible to get a menu to do as the one
at Slate without using java ?  I mean by giving a "hover" display as
large as they do ?    Also,  could the links within that "hover"
display also have displays  to pop out on "hover" ?  

I realize this would probably not be desirable for most commercial
web sites,  but I had in mind pages intended more for scholarly
reading such as a history web site.  

Quoted text here. Click to load it

From where I am,  I'm very happy that so much of this in public
domain.     But I did wonder how it would be to somebody who thinks up
a new idea of how to display something.  

I have another thought that is new to me since I started learning web
building.     My first online computer had about a 13 inch screen.  I
then got one that is 15 inches.  I had thought I wanted one larger,
but spending time watching the pros,  I now see that I don't want a
larger screen for web surfing.    I figure a 21 incher would be as
hard a my neck as  watching a tennis match.   I now surf with about a
800 px screen.   Beyond that is a waste.  

Re: Are menus importat ?

On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:06:58 -0400, F.C.James wrote:

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That would be JavaScript (ECMA Script)

Java is not used on that page, and  has little to do with JavaScript
except the word "Java".  This is a common source of confusion.

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There is also other material on Meyer's
site related to this.  And there are materials on
which you can search out like this one: /

Re: Are menus importat ?

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If content is "king" then being able to navigate to get to the content is
really very important.   Good design is what we all strive for.  And the
coders among us also want elegant code not just a "well designed page.".

This hobby has definitely gotten away from me!
Try which has a new telnet chat system and a HUGE
file downloads collection.  Ecard:

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