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Re: 2 Gbyte attachment
Maybe some, but if some OS is better, why try Linux?
That's not in general :-)
Server again :-)
Nonsense. I use the command line a lot, as a user. If you think that a
GUI is *the ultimate solution* you can't be more wrong.
There is no such thing, nor will there ever be IMNSHO.
Yeah, same holds for surgery. Are you going to see this happen? Me no.
Yeah, if you can turn on your TV you should be able to fly an airplane.
Is this going to happen? Not with the end user in full control. And
that's what most people want with a computer at the moment, as far as I
You can buy them. And I think the list is growing every day. It's like
the ARM processor I talked about: almost 20 years ago just a thing for a
hobby computer, and now? "World domination".
Yes, but it sounds you want a computer like that. You either have a
computer that "thinks" for you, like in a washing machine, or you have a
general tool that comes with a manual that matches it's complicated
workings. The more flexible the bigger the manual. It sounds like you
think that there will be a time that those two can be found in one
device. I doubt that ever happening, unless your computer comes with a
Yup, and you seem to think that a task specific "webcomputer" is
possible. Not now, since every site defines it's own UI.
routers, pda's, coffeemakers, xeroxmachine, dvd player, etc. etc. I
remember vaguely that you can buy a PC (s?) that can be booted into
Linux (!) and then becomes a DVD/CD player. Linux is installed on them.
Yup, and for a lot of users that's enough. You want either a complex
gadget with a manual, or a simple piece of hardware that does just a
limited number of things. You can't have both in one box.
Does that matter to the user? If it works, it works.
Yup, but we were talking about Linux, thus I give Linux examples. Some
run their own OS, so neither Linux nor Windows. A lot don't even use
Intel processors (ARM for example).
It was not about against, but you claimed that Linux was no where to be
seen. If you open your eyes, it's popping up in many unexpected places.
I went to pay the bill, and *pop* I see a box running a Gnome desktop
Yup, so if in Mexico a poor guy or girl has to buy a computer (for
study) what does he/she buy? And in a country like Mexico it's a bit
hard to enforce no legal copies. I can buy whatever I want on every
streetcorner, moreover, when I walk to such a corner I get lost between
the sellers, there are so many of them.
So it's either a stripped down version of XP, or saying: we switched to
Linux, so bye bye.
Expect is not enough. It depends a lot on the kind of company of course,
but Linux is growing, slow but steady. It probably will never dominate
the market, because I guess if it ever goes in that direction a new
player pops up and takes it :-)
If the rest of the world switches, the west has to follow. But the west
is also converting :-)
Since a lot of application software are just clones of MS or software
running on MS, this is less and less of a problem. OpenOffice is every
day better at replacing Office. I considered Office, especially Excel,
one of the better products of MS. So that's bad news for MS IMO.
And even if there is no look-a-like (alternative) there are programs
with similar functionality, which is good enough in many cases.
Hence I don't use figures, and only correct/add info you when it's
obvious you are wrong :-)
Hence the lost market on the other browser site is less interesting
compared to IE.
But it all comes down to MS vs the rest, and MS is losing a little
ground. If IE 7 is not going to be available on older OSes, and IE 7
finally supports the features the others already support it might be
that more and more websites pop up that either require the visitor to
switch to Firefox, or upgrade their OS.
Yes, I am aware that many will do the latter, but we talk about at least
2 years from now, and who knows where Linux is then.
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Re: 2 Gbyte attachment
John Bokma wrote:
You do, most people dont. By the very nature of you posting in here
takes you out of the "average user" market :) I rarely use the command
like and I know PCs inside out. I started out using the command line,
but it is FAR faster (and makes more sense) doing it via a UI. Most
people are very visual. Command lines are about as counter-intuative to
a non-tech as you can get.
Of course. But doesn't mean you should try.
That doesn't follow. If you have a rough idea of how any version of
Windows is used, you are then able to use the UI of any version of
Windows, or Mac, or some Linux desktops. Soon as anything goes wrong,
Windows is fair easy to fix, Macs rarely go wrong and Linux... turns
into a horrible mess.
No... users want to be able to do a small collection of specific things.
Everything else doesn't really matter.
Different market. ARM is not about to replace IBM, Intel or AMD by a
Did you read your Windows manual? It's pretty skinny really. Maybe 100
pages. Given how much Windows does, doesn't that strike you as odd?
Wonder why it doesn't nead 1000s of pages of Man(uals) to understand how
most of it is supposed to be used. Or why a user never needs to use
abstract uninteligable things like command lines.
Because by definition "web computer" is actually a lot of different
things. It's a games machine, a word processor, a web browser... you get
the idea. Right now your set-top-box isn't. Probably will be one day,
but right now it's not.
There is no reason a PC cant be this.
It might be running in a lot of places, but almost NONE of these places
(relatively, comsumer market) are in "common punters" homes. This
discussion is getting a bit daft. People actively use Windows/OSX. They
dont actively use Linux. Just because it's installed on a few black box
devices changes nothing. WindowsCE is also installed on countless
backboxes, and you will never know, but it is there. I'm talking about
home computing - and given Apples announcements todays, that's where all
the changes will be.
Which is great! But that doesn't change the the whole UI argument. I
feel sorry for people who have to deal with the Linux UIs, or fixing
them when they go wrong.
Perhaps. But if Apple move into the PC desktop market, I think Linux may
sink completely. On the other hand, so could Apple if they mess up :)
OpenOffice is becoming really good. I run that on my laptop. But
everywhere else Linux is hopeless. If you want to do anything
multimedia, you may as well give up right away. While there is SOME
software, it's about 5 years behind anything currently on the PC or Mac.
If you want to do edit your home videos, do Flash, edit a photo, do an
illustration, publish a newsletter... there is far better FREE software
for Windows, let alone the paid-for programs.
x theSpaceGirl (miranda)
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Re: 2 Gbyte attachment
Doing *it* via a UI? It all depends what *it* is (and also the platform
and command line apps available). I can burn a directory to CD far
faster on the command line than I can by starting up some GUI
application to do the same thing. Of course the argument goes both ways
as there are many (most?) things that *are* faster to do via a UI.
This is true.
The people who tend to argue against Linux often fall back on the
argument that the command line is required to use a Linux box but it's
not at all true. I personally /don't/ have to use the command line at
all on my desktop box but /choose/ to use it for certain tasks as it
makes these much faster for /me/.
 other than for ssh'ing into a remote web server which is far from
typical computer usage
[rest of comments snipped]
Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com