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Posted by Arie Mijnlieff on February 13, 2005, 10:25 am
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Hi !
I have an html file (http://www.kpc.nl/home.html) which i send to the
w3 validator as well as to a an online HTML tidy script.
The w3 validator (validator.w3.org) claims the frameset tag doesnt
have a border tag whereas the html tidy script
(http://infohound.net/tidy/tidy.pl) claims everything is ok..
Who is right ? I am asking this because i would like to write clean
html. If the w3 validator is right how should i suppres the borders in
a frameset ?
Thanks, Arie
below my file: (as well as on http://www.kpc.nl/home.html)
1: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
2:
3: <html>
4: <head>
5: <title>Keizer Prestatie Consultancy</title>
6: <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1">
7: </head>
8:
9: <frameset rows="125,*" border="0" frameborder="0">
10: <frame name="topframe" scrolling="auto"
src="interface/top.html">
11: <frameset cols="175,*" border="0">
12: <frame name="toc" scrolling="no"
src="interface/toc/index.htm">
13: <frame name="content" scrolling="auto"
src="content/home/index.html">
14:
15: </frameset>
16: </frameset>
17:
18: <noframes><body>
19:
20: </body></noframes>
21:
22:
23:
24: </html>
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Posted by Bjoern Hoehrmann on February 13, 2005, 7:42 pm
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* Arie Mijnlieff wrote in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
>I have an html file (http://www.kpc.nl/home.html) which i send to the
>w3 validator as well as to a an online HTML tidy script.
>
>The w3 validator (validator.w3.org) claims the frameset tag doesnt
>have a border tag whereas the html tidy script
>(http://infohound.net/tidy/tidy.pl) claims everything is ok..
The version of Tidy that this online interface uses is probably outdated
as the current Tidy correctly reports
% get http://www.kpc.nl/home.html | tidy -e
line 9 column 1 - Warning: <frameset> proprietary attribute "border"
line 9 column 1 - Warning: <frameset> proprietary attribute "frameborder"
line 11 column 9 - Warning: <frameset> proprietary attribute "border"
Info: Doctype given is "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
Info: Document content looks like HTML Proprietary
--
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Weinh. Str. 22 · Telefon: +49(0)621/4309674 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
68309 Mannheim · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/
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Posted by Pierre Goiffon on February 14, 2005, 11:42 am
Please log in for more thread options Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
> line 9 column 1 - Warning: <frameset> proprietary attribute "border"
The question is : what is the equivalent for this attribute ? I tried
few CSS stuffs but can't manage to get the same result.
Maybe the best thing is to use HTML 3.2 ?
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Posted by David Dorward on February 14, 2005, 10:52 am
Please log in for more thread options Pierre Goiffon wrote:
> Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
>> line 9 column 1 - Warning: <frameset> proprietary attribute "border"
> The question is : what is the equivalent for this attribute ?
http://w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html#h-16.2.2
<frame ... frameborder="...">
IIRC, browser support is close to non-existent.
> I tried few CSS stuffs but can't manage to get the same result.
CSS doesn't touch on frames.
> Maybe the best thing is to use HTML 3.2 ?
HTML 3.2 doesn't have frames in it at all.
http://w3.org/TR/html4/appendix/changes.html#h-A.3 - FRAME and FRAMESET are
listed under the new elements.
Frames come loaded with accessibility problems, and are almost always best
avoided. You appear to be using them as a means to include common content
on multiple pages. Better techniques for that are described at
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Include_one_file_in_another
--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
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Posted by AES on February 14, 2005, 10:02 am
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> Frames come loaded with accessibility problems, and are almost always best
> avoided. You appear to be using them as a means to include common content
> on multiple pages. Better techniques for that are described at
> http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Include_one_file_in_another
This oft-repeated assertion is FALSE. The list of "better techniques"
to be (allegedly) found at that web site comprises:
* HTML Preprocessing (Do it before uploading) Works for everyone
* Server Side Includes (Have the webserver do it) Needs server
support
* Server Side Scripting (Have it done on the webserver by another
program) Needs server support
* Frames (Have the browser do it) Requires client support
* Objects (Have the browser do it) Requires client suppport
* Client Side Scripting (Have the browser do it) Requires advanced
client support
Note that there is NO technique on this list that can be accomplished
with just plain old unassisted HTML. Even the first one, which
supposedly "works for everyone", in fact requires moderately complex
processing and modification of your HTML documents before you upload
them.
Asking for a _simple, easy to use_ means to "include common content on
multiple pages" is a perfectly reasonable request, and a desirable
capability for plain vanilla HTML. If frames provide the only way to
accomplish this, well, they'll naturally be used. If anyone wants to
point to another genuinely better way to meet this need _within plain
vanilla, unprocessed HTML_, I'll be delighted to hear of it.
[And incidentally, my take after reading a lot of the opinions (aka
rants) that have been posted on this group and on HTML pages concerning
the alleged problems of frames is that most of these reasons are at this
point either minor, irrelevant, or obsolete.]
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