Traffic vs Income

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I have a few websites running affiliate programs, google adsense amongst
How much traffic, in terms of pageviews or visitors, would I need to make a
decent income?

I know this would vary a lot depending on content etc, but roughly speaking,
how much traffic in order to make it worth my while doing it full time?



Re: Traffic vs Income

Pete wrote:
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Take the figure ($) you currently get from your affiliate programs, then
find out your current traffic levels per month, then right down a figure
that you'd like to earn per month. Then so a simple sum:

$ / current visitors = current income
Then say you want your "current income" amount to be 10 times bigger than it
currently is, then all you need to do is increase your "current visitors" by
10 times and you should have a decent income.

My site is popular enough to merit a PR7 google ranking.
To advertise on my popular site, email
(remove extra o's)

Re: Traffic vs Income

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 15:27:19 +0000, Pete wrote:

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Mark's answer to your query probably shows more wisdom, but I'll take a
chance and throw out some numbers.

For me to make $75k/yr (pre-tax) from affiliate and advertising programs,
I would have to have approximately 25,000 unique visitors a day to my
collection of web sites.


Re: Traffic vs Income

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It really does vary alot by content and what affiliate programs you have...
numbers that work for somebody might not meet yours at all

I had a job web site up (links to job pages on company websites, interview
tips, resume writing tips, links to job boards, links to recruiting
agencies, etc)... I put up affiliate links up all over the site and in 6
months I made like $5 off Commision Junction.

Then I changed the site around... I got rid of the affiliate links and let
recuriting agencies, job boards and 'back to work' programs advertise on the
site... even though the site was still only getting about 15,000 visitors a
month I was making about $800 a month in advertising on it

My problem was I was trying to make money off the wrong people (the
unemployed, instead of the companies that wanted business from the

The same goes for throwing up ads on a website... if you have a site about
proper dog grooming and throw up some eBay links and links to casinos you
probably aren't going to see much revenue being generated...

By comparison, if you put up a site about online gambling tips, links, how
to win, etc... you would probably see more activity out of your casino
affiliates, while a site about "how to bid on eBay" and ebay tips and
tricks, how to not get ripped off, etc  would probably end up with more eBay
affiliate activity

So a good specialised site where the links and ads pertain to the subject at
hand can potentially make more revenue with good ads pertaining to the
content, than a site that just gets alot of hits

Re: Traffic vs Income

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I have been doing this full time for a year and part time for 3 years.

As stated before it depends on the amount made per sale. But
conversion rates have been at 3% for as long as I remember.

That is if you get 100 targeted visitors (people specifically
searching for your type of site) you will sell 3 of them what you are

Conversion rates are historically low and sometimes very frustrating.

I have a loan quote site and if 100 people come to my site searching
for "loan quote" or something similar, I will still only get roughly 3
people who click thru and fill out a mortgage quote form. You would
think all 100 would but for whatever reason it just isnt so.

The upside is that if you are getting paid $30 per mortgage lead and
doing 100 visits a day then of course thats $100 per day.

Using this example if you generate 300 visits per day then thats
36,000 per year. But before you go full time my suggstion would be to
have several sites producing a steady stream of income from each one.
This business is a roller coaster ride and diversification is a must.
I have at least 15 income producing sites and about 5 more on the
horizon. I am also producing $1000 a month from stuff that didnt
really work (odds and ends)in addition to my "real sites" that produce
an average of $5000-7000 per month.

Conversion rates are higher if the customer doesnt have to put out any
money up front. Such as lead generation. The customer only has to fill
out a form which generates a sales lead for someone. And the company
pays you per lead.

Also some affiliates convert better than others. Dont get discouraged
if "Bills blue widget affiliate" isnt converting and you know it
Try "Jims blue widget affiliate" instead and experiment  with
different affiliates. Some sites take too long to get to close the
sale and customers get bogged down in the B.S.

One other thing. Keep it simple. A simple site will convert better
than a sophisticated one. Some of the ugliest sites make alot of
money. Look at Google. Hardly anything on the home page. Look at the
Drudge Report.
Looks like it was typed on a 1950s typewriter.

Now back to what I was doing.


Re: Traffic vs Income

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Very well done Tim,

Thank you.


James Taylor - Search Engine Optimization Services - Free SEO Tools!

Re: Traffic vs Income

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Correction- 100 visits per day under this example generates 36,000 per
year. 300 visits would genereate a little over 100,000.

By the way thats a very realistic example.

There a lots of affiliate programs offerring a $30 bounty per sale.


Re: Traffic vs Income

On 6 Apr 2004 21:03:33 -0700, (Tim Arnold) wrote:

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My enquiries say an average conversion rate is around 1% and if you
get 2% you are doing really, really well. This is checking with a lot
of ecommerce sites.

My Lingerie sites at first had a conversion of around 0.2%. After
improving the look of the site it went to almost 0.5%. When they lost
a bunch of traffic due to problems with google it when to over 1%.

The last conversion improvement was due to the traffic becoming more
relevant. Basically the better you do in terms of traffic lower the
conversion is likely to be since you get a lot of not very high
quality visitors.

These are for thousands of visitors a day, so I suppose 3% is a
possibility for a site with just a few hundred visitors a day as it
seems lower traffic numbers results in higher conversions.

Anyone else got any conversion stats?


Re: Traffic vs Income

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Augustus  makes a good point. I learned along time ago you cannot make
money from people that have none.

With this in mind remember that on the internet it is just as easy to
sell something for $500 as it is to sell something for $3.

Since conversion is low, then think big and go for high commissions,
high dollar products if it looks lucrative and you have researched it.

Remember it is just as easy to sell high end jewelry as it is to sell
Spyware software. The format is the same for the most part.


Re: Traffic vs Income

How do I get people to my website?  I sew microwaveable corn heating
pads.  They are real nice for pain.  I can not advertise because I am
a "mom Business", I am new.  I have gone to Dr. Weil's website message
board and webmd message board and mentioned my product.  I have
written to fibromyalgia websites and groups.  The only thing is...I
feel bad doing so.  I know that anyone that buys my product will LOVE
it, but I donot want to seem rude by mentioning my heating pads.
Also, after I wrote on a couple of message boards, I noticed that they
said No soliciting.  Oops!

When I wrote to a couple of websites they wanted to charge me 1200.00
to advertise.  I can not even pay 299.00 to submit to yahoo, much less
pay 1200 for one website.

So, any business suggestions?  Look at my website and give me some

Thank you very much.

Re: Traffic vs Income

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Hi Chickeeabee,

This is a tough one...but I am going to bring it up. There may not be that
much of a market for a particular product, no matter how great it is.

I checked Google tonight and you are #14 for the term "Microwaveable heating
pads".  Not too bad but there are only about 2000 total results so that
would lead me to believe that the keyword term does not have much
competition.  Having said that, there could be several reasons for that.
One, there may be no demand for the product.  Two, you may have discovered a
niche market that many have not yet discovered...I cannot think of any more
at the moment but I am sure there are.

Your products look very nice and I am sure they work very well.

If I were managing the campaign, I would look carefully for folks who need
what I sell and try to target them.
My guess would be corns develop mainly with the elderly (never had then,
don't know anyone who does).  If this is true, you may want to keep your web
presence but target other media as well;

1.) Travel and vacation magazines, campgrounds, motorhome and trailer sales
dealerships and travel memberships like "thousand trails". For very little,
you might be able to get a test ad in some of these media or even a nice,
home made brochure in a local (but preferably large ) travel
trailer/motorhome dealership, where older folks, who often times have
disposable income and spend it on traveling, will see your product.

2.) You might offer to speak to groups of active seniors (the larger the
better) about general healthcare and preventative steps to take, one being
the use of your product.

3.) You might target a radio show or two that focuses on this same group and
offer free product in some sort of giveaway/promotion.

While many seniors are becoming more computer literate, my experience has
been that most did not grow up with this technology and most seniors are not
using it regularly.  The web site might have to remain your backup marketing
effort for a while, until more targeted folks catch on.

With regard to Search engine optimization, save your money right now and
listen in here at this newsgroup for a few weeks.  It will help you get your
site as optimized and you need to get it and you will not have to pay for
the lessons :-)

Best of luck and welcome!

James Taylor - SEO, Web Development and Hosting -FREE SEO TOOLS

Re: Traffic vs Income

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I'm not sure about that. suggests that healthcare is a popular area
for online research, and that arthritis, which is one of the things
snuggley heating pads can apparently  help with, is one of the biggest

The pads can also be used by pregnant women, and to treat stiff necks
and cramps.

I think James misread the post: the pads are filled with corn,  not
designed to treat corns!

At the moment, the main focus of the site is the pads, not the problems
they solve.

I would suggest turning things round - create an information resource
for some of the likely problems (that searchers are looking for
solutions to), and target searches like 'arthritis pain relief'.

With a product like this, I reckon people won't necessarily know that a
pad is what they want: they just know their neck hurts (for example) and
they want it fixed.

Building content about the problem (and how your product can help fix
it) is often a very effective strategy, and can work well for a business
like this as it requires time and effort rather than money investment.

Clare Associates Ltd /
01822 835802

Re: Traffic vs Income

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My apologies!

Thanks fo rthat catch Victoria.

James Taylor - SEO, Web Development and Hosting -FREE SEO TOOLS

Re: Traffic vs Income

Victoria Clare wrote:
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You have to start by thinking as the potential customer. There is little
chance that anyone will suddenly decide to search for a new type of pain
relief product. They WILL search for "pain relief".

What you probably need is to research which conditions the pads will help,
and build a page for each condition where you explain how to use the pads
to help with that condition. Then you need to place links to the top
information sites for that particular condition.

Once you've built each information page you then need to email the
webmaster at each site you've linked to and tell them you've linked to
their site (telling them why you thought their site was a particular good
resource can also be a good idea), and suggesting they might link to
yours. If you can you should also suggest a link text (for example "pain
relief pads for arthritis") that includes the words you are expecting
people to use to find your information page.

Not only will this mean you start getting traffic directly from
established sites, it will mean that your site will start directly showing
up in searches.

This is not going to show quick results. It may take months for each new
information page to really start making a difference. However, it's
cumulative. When you've got five or six such pages and links to and from
30 or 40 major health web sites you'll be showing up extremely well on the
search engines and traffic will continue growing without you having to
work all that hard at it.

"I am a man of many parts, unfortunately most of
them are no longer in stock"

Re: Traffic vs Income

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The Pew Reports survey of seniors showed a large increase in the number of
seniors using the internet. It also shows that health care is the main topic
they are researching. Just make sure the site is senior friendly.

The Pew Internet & American Life Project has released a new report on older
Americans and the Internet.

  The percent of seniors who go online has jumped by 47% between 2000 and
2004. In a February 2004 survey, 22% of Americans age 65 or older reported
having access to the Internet, up from 15% in 2000. That translates to
about 8 million Americans age 65 or older who use the Internet. By
contrast, 58% of Americans age 50-64, 75% of 30-49 year-olds, and 77% of
18-29 year-olds currently go online.

  There have been big increases since 2000 in the number of online seniors
doing several key activities. It is important to stress, though, that even
with these high growth rates, it is usually the case that online seniors
have done these online activities at lower rates that younger Internet users.

- 66% of wired seniors had looked for health or medical information online
at some point in their online life by the end of 2003. That is a 13-point
jump since 2000, and a growth rate of 25%.

- 66% of wired seniors had done product research online by the end of 2003.
That is an 18-point jump since 2000, and a growth rate of 38%.

- 47% of online seniors had bought something on the Internet by the end of
2003. That is an 11-point increase since 2000 and a growth rate of 31%.

- 41% have made travel reservations online by the end of 2003. That is a
16-point increase since 2000 and a growth rate of 64%.

- 26% of wired seniors had looked for religious and spiritual information
by the end of 2003. That is a 15-point jump since 2000, or a growth rate of

- 20% of online seniors had done banking on the Internet by the end of
2003. That is a 12-point increase since 2000 and a growth rate of 150%.

  Despite the significant gains among seniors, most Americans age 65 and
older live lives far removed from the Internet, know few people who use
email or surf the Web, and cannot imagine why they would spend money and
time learning how to use a computer. Seniors are also more likely than any
other age group to be living with some kind of disability, which could
hinder their capacity to get to a computer training center or read the
small type on many Web sites.

The report, titled "Older Americans and the Internet," is based primarily
on survey data collected between February 3 and March 1, 2004.  The full
report is available at:
< http://www.pewinter


The Pew Internet & American Life Project is a non-profit, non-partisan
research organization that is funded by the Pew Charitable Trusts to
examine the social impact of the Internet. It does not advocate policy

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Re: Traffic vs Income

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Thanks for sharing that report!

James Taylor - SEO, Web Development and Hosting -FREE SEO TOOLS

Re: Traffic vs Income

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Pew provides some incredible information on how Americans use the Internet.
Best of all, it's free.
In December, they did a report on how American's use of the internet changed
from 2000-2002.
The data this provides for marketing is really incredible.
Pew releases a report about once a month and sends out an e-mail when they do.
I'd strongly recommend signing up for the service.
web design, print design, photography

Re: Traffic vs Income

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Very cool resource.

Thanks LauraK!

James Taylor - SEO, Web Development and Hosting -FREE SEO TOOLS

Re: Traffic vs Income

James...I really like your camping idea.  I had thought about that in
smaller ways...but your is better.  Also, I was thinking about
maketing these for dogs.  Older people that camp usually have a little
dog.  And little doggies get cold.  I think I will look into "thousand
trails"  That seems real good.

Thank you

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Re: Traffic vs Income

On 7 Apr 2004 21:56:43 -0700,
(chickeebabee) wrote:

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[Non-SEO tips]

When posting to a group, forum, or message board - most of the readers
of those places would prefer the person participated in the
discussions then shared a signature on those submitted postings. This
way you are not viewed as simply being there to share a spiel about
your site or product. Also - if you sound friendly or knowledgeable
about something - people may be more apt to click on your URL in the
sig line more so than if you posted once and that once being a
promotional sounding bit of spiel about your site.

There are also groups, forum, or message board areas set up for people
to use for promotional thoughts. Usenet has some announce groups where
people can announce a new site or new product without the other people
complaining - as that is what those groups were created for. Yahoo
Groups also has had some people who have created groups purely for a
person to use in promoting or sharing a spiel about their group, site,
or products. If you are in Yahoo Groups, list your site URL on your
public profile - may be suprised by how many people will click on it.

Use signature lines on your own emails; even to family and friends.
Just keep the signature line short, simple, and to the point while
promoting your site's URL. Don't go fancy with the HTML in that sig
file as some places may not render the HTML and have that sig file
look like - well, crap or unusable.

That is one way of promoting a site, commercial or non-commercial,
that is often overlooked. Not saying it result in droves of people
clicking on that URL - but you may gain some traffic that you
otherwise may not have gotten. [I know, my posts to this ng doesn't
share a sig line - but I don't use it everywhere I post at].

Offline, use business cards with your URL shared on it. Pass it out -
leave a tip at a restuarant? Leave your business card with that tip.
When I used to be a freelance DJ - I received some business from
waiters/waitresses/"bus boys" that came across the card I left with a
tip. Just as I was hired to do some school reunions, parties, or
wedding receptions that those individuals were trying to help plan or
arrange ... you may get some interest for your microwaveable heating
pads. Bulliton board at the local supermarkets? Leave 3 or so of your
business cards on there.

Out of town? Do the same thing: Leave a card with the tip - if you go
to a store and see they offer a community bulliton board, leave a
business card or two in your wake.

Sure, the business card thought is limited in that you can only share
those where you can leave them ... but some of those people who may
pick up those cards may also hop online and so may share your URL with
others through word of mouth promotion of your site.

A gal I know from online started a site - she invested $30 on business
card, flyers, thumbtacks, and tape and $20 for a tank of gas; she hit
every place she could think of where she could leave a few of those
cards or share a flyer at. She made back her $50 investment plus more;
oddly she wasn't selling anything but made back the money through
people clicking on the affiliate links and/or advertisements shared on
her site. LOL!

I have my husband and oldest child help promote my sites - by them
telling other people about my sites. ;) Never know - some people they
know _may_ be interested in my sites topics [and a few have been]. A
friend of mine shared one of my sites URL with someone they met online
- resulted in that person contacting me and hiring me to do some work
for them.

So don't ignore the traditional or "old fashioned" means of promotion
- even if it is a web site.

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Even with the complaints about the slowness factors - consider
submitting the URL to - it's free even to commercial sites.
There are some other, but smaller, directories that do not charge for
being listed in them. Yahoo is not the only directory out there, in
other words -- but I should add that one should not confuse "paying to
submit" to Yahoo Directory being the same as Yahoo Search; two
different sections of Yahoo.

You mentioned contacting or joining health themed
groups/forums/message boards - have you also sought out "Mom biz"
themed ones? Some of the latter may have people who share tips or be
willing to network with other Mom biz/small business sites.


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