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Re: Paid SEO
Extreme example, surely?
Suppose it's from a PR10 page, obviously a sponsor link (the page has
"Thanks to our sponsors" or similar all over it), in an unrelated
industry. Any good or a waste of 2000 euros a month?
I may get a few from some Indians. Just a handful of recips.
Your sites use other folks' content while John and Cat write their own
so there's no comparison.
Your traffic is "mud at the wall" traffic. It covers so much ground
through coincidence that anyone searching for a very broad range of
obscure indifferent serps. John gets traffic targeted at two things,
his scorpions and perl, Cat gets weirdo sex traffic, you get mostly
On-page optimisation. That and longevity, with me.
Obviously paid for links, if we leave any traffic benefits out of the
equation? Purely for PR purposes?
I still believe in the concept. Peer judgement. I link to those seo
sites that offer something useful to others so it can be done. The
only resources for seo I've come up with are my lists of other
peoples'. The only other resource I have is my
www.kruse.co.uk/article-research.htm page and again that's a list of
A negligible amount, not to be concerned with. Whole fleets of them,
quite possibly, but again, that may well depend upon their
Why would they want it? Also, how would they find you?
Assuming it's in some quiet corner then any harm it may do will be
negligible. Not of any consequence. Facile to suggest otherwise. In H1
tags screaming from all the pages then yes, quite possibly damage of
consequence would occur.
But it wasn't when they got it.
It does now. It didn't then. Their visibility, once gained, gets them
more clients and so more links and so enhanced visibility. Which gets
them more clients etc. It's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It was easier to gain serps when there was no competition for them.
It's harder now. There are folk at the top of the mountain, settled,
with their feet under the table. It's harder now.
But it's still much harder to get there now than it was years ago.
Re: Paid SEO
I do not have figures on conversion rates, but I think BUSINESS looks
at resources and costs, you are looking at things as an engineer. If a
customer (eg your wife) buys or not is not the issue, the issue how
much did something cost and what return was obtained?
Amazon may look great and led the work in SEO and Web, but Amazon lost
billions for years, and all basic profit analysis show terrible
I will give a simple example.
If someone invests 200 pounds and earns 1000 pounds, the profit is 800
If someone invests 200,000 pounds and loses 4,000 pounds, the loss is
The first business model has beaten the second by huge factor. The
first model has a 5 times profit or a 500% return, the second one has a
negative return. The first one may deliver huge sales, the site may
look great, but the fundamental business model is not good.
So the issue is not conversion rates, or if a customer buys, but how
much profit is made according to investment.
I will give another simple example. A man recently came to me looking
to work. I asked what he could do, and for how much. He said: "I expect
at least 20 pounds per hour for data entry, that's my rate." My only
real issue - can he make me 100 pounds an hour? And more important, can
someone make me 200 pounds for the same cost, or 100 pounds for w lower
cost. They are the main issues. I rejected his offer.
I know people who were in bathrooms who sold hundreds of thousands
pounds months - sites looked great, everyone said that's great. They
filed as bankrupt due to bad business models - those sites looked
great! conversion rates - greeeeeeeeeat! business models - do not ask!
or more important ask the official receiver. One was Bargin Boss which
sold a huge amount of stuff on ebay - millions of pounds - the ratings
were greeeeeeeeat, suppliers, customers, everyone loved Bargin Boss and
then - they went bust. Suppliers ..... not very happy, customers ....
gone. Debts were huge, suppliers were not paid, profits were low, costs
high, converion rates - greeeeat, business model - do not ask.
Suppliers were furious when then truth finally arrived in their offices
in a nicely printed envelope, saying sorry.
The business is a lot more complex than producing a nice web designed
site. That is about 1% of the business.
Companies like Amazon, Google, trade only due to large capital
investment, not based on their fundamental performance. They are in
short bad business. A 4 year old child could make money from a 100
million dollar investment.
Re: Paid SEO
Conversion rate is another tool for determining how well/badly you are
doing. From research and experience 1% conversion appears to be about
average, though obviously some sectors will be wildly different (SEO
visitor conversion is much lower than 1% in my experience for
example). Yours might be lower than 1% because of the high value
I would suggest a very quick look at your monthly web sales (total
number) and compare it to total visitors for that month, this will
give you a ball park conversion rate. If significantly lower than 1%
it suggests there is room for improvement.
With my first eccomerce site years ago I used software that resulted
in poor design, conversion was around 0.5% after getting advice about
what was wrong I improved the design and conversion improved to around
0.8% within days of the new upload. The site was getting around 6,000
visitors a day at the time so made a SIGNIFICANT difference to sales!!
I've seen these improvements time and time again with clients sites,
make the site look more professional (all sites have room for
improvement) and conversion increases.
But if more of your current website visitors buy your ROI increases.
Amazon didn't lead the work in SEO or web? They had a business model
that relied on massive losses for years while branding kicked in! BIG
risk if you ask me, but it paid off for them though could have gone
the other way had investment dried up!
Yes, though not enough information to determine if the business model
is good/bad. What if both relied on web sales and both had a
conversion of 0.5% and by improving their users experience it's
increased to 0.75% almost overnight (seen it done) who has the better
business model now, who makes most profit?
Yes and no. If you compare direct profits then some small businesses
do better relatively speaking than large companies, as ROI my business
activities probably result in a ROI of over 10,000% (very low costs +
highly profitable) that's a better return than Google gives. But my
business isn't scalable like Googles is/was and so Google is a much
better place to invest a lot of money.
It's not how I look at things, but I understand your reasoning.
I have a feeling you've take exception to my comment, I'm sorry but if
you want to make maximum revenue from your web traffic, site design is
important. I'm not talking flashy sites, but basic things like when
visitors find dead links they leave-
Check your conversion rate and decide for yourself, if it's over 1%
you probably won't increase it significantly.
BTW I sent you an email to the address on the NG sales at
logicians.com and it just bounced-
"I was unable to deliver to <sales at logicians.com> because the user
is over their quota."
You got another email address?
AdSense Tips http://www.morearnings.com/2006/05/08/adsense-revenue /
Re: Paid SEO
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:42:11 GMT, David
Try the form here;
I just used it ok.
Try the form here;
I just used it ok.
Re: Paid SEO
I only took exception to what is basically superificially analysis. The
actual web design of a site is trivial in terms of engineering. I am
using XSL - see http://www.w3.org/Style/XSL/ but there are countless
other methods which mean if a site is XML based, the presentation (or
presentational mark up) is basically easy. Combined with CSS it means
all the appearance side of the site can be changed in minutes.
With a high grade server, and high memory dynamic pages and client
logging can mean a highly interactive site, eg different prices for
different users. I cannot do this now since my server is too low grade.
My own background is engineering, and many of the sites I see do not
even work with certain browser settings, and I have met numerous
"experts" who know almost nothing - they sell smiles, confidence and
image. (Dyson talks a lot of about that).
So I am only angry that people will discuss something at length which
can be changed in about 4 minutes in terms of implementation. But I do
not know what users expect to see, and hence I cannot make the changes.
If I ever try to find out from an expert I just get told a lot of
rubbish and I end up telling them about the Internet works. My last
expert I spoke to had never heard of XSL - he was an expert in Web
SEO/marketing - and after him two experts arrived and as I talked about
XSL, they thought I was talking about XHTML - again they were experts.
They later emailed me saying they were "unfamiliar" with my
technologies and therefore could not assist. The first expert did not
even return my emails.
I would like to see companies with billions behind them, like Google,
act more intelligently. It would not surprise me at all to learn that
Larry Page cannot even write 4 lines of HTML.
But what bothers more than all that, is that business is so hard and so
dishonest - I have been told countless times "undercut B and Q or BIG
Company X and we close you down ASAP."
Re: Paid SEO
Have you read this at all ?
It put me off wanting to learn it.
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