Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

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Is it keyword spamming if you have a non-profit fansite for Jane Doe
and you list things not because you want better Yahoo ranking but
because you want people searching for different Jane Doe things that
are on your site to be able to find your site (and you're afraid that
less-experienced searchers won't find you because, for instance, some
people say "fansite" and some say "fan site")?

In other words, is keyword spamming like speeding, in that you're
either doing it or you're not, and your intent doesn't matter? Or is
it a case of manslaughter vs. murder?

And either way, is it really bad if you're NOT trying to get ahead of
other people in the same boat as you but trying to get an edge over
computer-generated crap sites that suck you in and try to sell you
Jane Doe posters?


"This site is, or at this site you will find or find information

"Jane Doe Information Jane Doe Biography Jane Doe Bio Jane Doe
Filmography Jane Doe Facts Jane Doe Screen Grabs Jane Doe Screen Caps
Jane Doe Screencaps Jane Doe Screen captures Jane Doe Screencaptures
Jane Doe Pictures Jane Doe Pics Jane Doe Photos Jane Doe Site Jane Doe
Fan Site Jane Doe Fansite Jane Doe Web Site Jane Doe Website Jane Doe
Home page Jane Doe Homepage Jane Doe Unofficial Fansite Jane Doe
Unofficial Fan site Jane Doe Unofficial Website Jane Doe Unofficial
Web site"

Thanks and regards,
Jake Plissken

Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent? (Jake Plissken) wrote in

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If it's not on your site, the people probably go.

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Nothing wrong with that IMHO. Otherwise everybody has to check his/her
site for correct spelling all the time.

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I would never use that. When I see something like that pop up in my
search results, I skip the site.

How about:

We are a Jane Doe fansite dedicated to give you the total Jane Doe
experience. You can find the biography, filmography and facts and

Also we have some great pictures of Jane Doe in action, a must see for
every fan.

Although we are an unofficial fansite we try to keep up to date with the
lastest Jane Doe news.

Ah well, something like that, Jane Doe sounds like a band, try to add
band related stuff in it.

John ->      MexIT:
                        Perl & Google/WWW:
Experienced programmer and SEO available: PR7
            Happy Customers:

Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?


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Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

Er ... wha? :o)


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Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

On 30 Sep 2004 07:09:15 -0700, (Jake
Plissken) wrote:

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That wasn't about you.


Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

I keep telling him that too! IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU!!!!!



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Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

On 29 Sep 2004 12:29:24 -0700, (Jake
Plissken) wrote:

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Makes no difference if you make a dime off the site or not - if it is
a fan site or not ... if a commercial site can be penalized for trying
to keyword spam, a non-profit/fansite/personal site can risk it also.

Just think of your site as that: a site.

for Jane Doe
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Don't just list things just "because you want better [insert SE name
of choice] ranking ...". _IF_ you want people, that are searching for
different Jane Doe things ... and your site happens to offer those
things, then build up your site and tweak your content to have not
look like "you list things" to try to get 'better [SE of choice]
ranking' ...

(and you're afraid that
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What about those who typo a lot and inadvertantly try to search fan

What about your site log files - which one of the two seems to do
better on bringing in people?

Not saying you can't optimize for some misspellings ... but sometimes
you may not gain that much, if anything at all, by spending time
optimizing for a certain misspelling. Other times you may luck out.
But its just like trying to optimize for keyphrases - if you pick out
ones that just aren't traffic drawers or phrases that people tend to
use at a search engine then you have to eventually try to figure out
what phrases people _would_ use to find your content.

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Since you mentioned Yahoo ... Yahoo is a bit more, for the lack of a
better word, finicky than Google and so, according to various forums,
more likely to penalize than trying to guess if "it is manslaughter vs
murder" as all they are gonna look at is their site guidelines. Being
penalized on Yahoo is not like it is at Google either.

At Google if you are penalized then your site tumbles in the rankings
and stays at a further back placement until you clean up your site. At
Yahoo a site that is penalized is just removed from their index - same
as being banned only you can go through this email routine with them
to try to get your site re-indexed. Then wait.

From what I have read, most have given up on re-indexing hopes and
just started over from scratch [new domain and cleaned up content to
remove what may have caused the penalty the first time around] as it
was much quicker. Which means then all your old links are pointless as
Yahoo ignores 301 redirects too.

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I would not stay long on a site that had something like that on it.
That is not only spamming the SE, in my opinion, but also anyone who
happens to click on your site link ...

If your site about Jane Doe offers all that then you can tell people
_and_ the SE's that without every other word being a repitition of the
actress's name or every 3rd word being a spelling variation.

[link]Jane Doe Information & Biography[link] : Bio, Filmography, and
may be some little known facts about your favorite actress!
[link]Jane Doe Screen Grabs[link] : Screen Caps of Jane Doe 'captured'
in action!
[link]Jane Doe Pictures[link] : Various photos and pics of Jane.

(Naturally have the links leading to a page offering MORE textual
content and then the "offered" items ... then you have one of the
inner pages, say like the bio one, optimized for bio, biography,
facts, and filmography PLUS Jane Doe, actress. So you have another
page in your site to help attract with readers with. Hence - building
up, beefing up, and tweaking the content of the site so you aren't
relient solely on the main page of the site carrying all the keywords
for the site itself - but sharing the load with some other pages in
the site).

Jane Doe Site Jane Doe
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All that above boils down to: Jane Doe Unofficial Fan Web Site Website
Home Page Homepage. Surely you can think of way to share those 10
words in a more reasonable and less spammish manner - say within a
couple of paragraphs where you can think sprinkle in a couple of
mentionings of "actress" and "movie" or "television" and such yet have
it being a more pleasant reading and something that would have a Jane
Doe fan thinking "Man, this site is informative and great reading ...
I think I will [1] bookmark it and/or [2] share a link to it from one
of my sites!"


Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?


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Gotcha--so it is more of a technical issue. I asked because everything
I found about keyword spamming was eBay and auction stuff. And because
I see so many sites with mild keyword trap (?) stuff ranked higher,
but I guess this is technically different than spamming--harder to
recognize by robots because although it's total crap it's not
necessarily repetition. (Jane Doe Nude, etc.) I guess it's
computer-generated crap to match your search? Maybe for another
topic.... :o)

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I'll look this up and get back to you. No idea what log files are!!

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Well ... ya might stay there if you were a Bubba Hopkins fan and this
was the only Bubba Hopkins site in existence and there were 900
pictures there! :o) I guess the point is we're trying to make up for
the fact that pictures don't seem to count for anything at all--the
fact that we have hundreds of big, clear pictures on our best sites
doesn't matter. Our sites are basically picture sites because we
screen cap lots of things and we post pictures you just can't GET
anywhere else unless you find that same frame screencapped. We don't
concentrate--OR AT LEAST WE DIDN'T! :o)--on text because everyone
already knows if you want info just go to IMDb. So like you pointed
out last week, our Jayne Brook "site" (not domain, as you know) was
ranked #3 zillion because there was no text content. Pictures just
don't count and that's what our sites are! :o) We're learning though.

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As a thought, if I have a links page like "friends' links" with links
to sites that have nothing to do with my site's content will this
detract with some SEs? Man this is confusing!

Carol, thanks very much for the help, seriously.
See Ya
Jake Plissken (I'm smelly's brother in case you haven't recognized the
family sarcasm) :o)

Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

Jake Plissken wrote:
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That is keyword spamming. Profit or non-profit, fan or official, it is
keyword spamming. Incidentally, i would never click on a link to a
site which served up a google snippet like that, no matter how high it
ranked at google. It's word salad, not language. I want to go to sites
with content.

Natural language is not a bar to scoring high at google. Go to google
and search on these words (not in quotes, just a natural search on
each word or term):

love spells
herb magic
evil eye
Paschal Beverly Randolph
John the Conqueror

Tonight, as i tested them before posting this, all of these searches
resulted in the top page being one that i wrote, at
(They may vary into the #2 spot now and then, but none have been below
#3 in months.)

All of the pages are written in natural, unspammed, clear English. The
keywords listed above reflect my site's real content.

If i can get to number one at google on terms like these, using
natural language on the pages, you can get to number one on your
chosen terms. I am here to tell you that good internal web site
structure, natural language content, and incoming links will not
hinder high scores at google -- and the snippets that google serves
up, being in actual English, will attract more people than keyword
salad snippets do.

Good luck,

cat yronwode

Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:55:31 GMT, catherine yronwode

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Actually it's not. Too much repetition in there. Are you not getting
the word salad emails? Dying out a bit now but six months ago they
were prevalent in my inbox.


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Re: Is keyword spamming defined technically or by intent?


Reading this thread I guess it just now became clear to me what our
problem is. All jokes aside, as a family we're smart at some things
(not many) and bad at explaining to other people what's in our insane,
collective head....

The bottom line is:

1) Our "sites" are strictly picture sites. Frankly we didn't care
about text content one bit until Carol pointed out that our Jayne
Brook site ranked low because the main page of the site--which was the
page all the incoming links (all one of them) linked to--was basically
"Hi this is our Jayne Brook site."

We didn't realize pages were ranked--not sites--until recently, thanks
to Google Groups. Don't ask me WHAT we thought! I guess we figured
people smarter than we are developed programs that had ways of
figuring, "OK, this is a Jayne Brook site with no text but 400
pictures," or whatever.

FYI--when we say "sites" we don't mean domains--not real "sites" in
terms of search engines--only in terms of what you see when you go
there, defined by intra-"site" linkage. Subjective terminology.

2) You know maybe one of us should post this as a separate issue,
since this thread started out about text and spamming. I forgot what
point #2 was anyway!

Anyway Catherine I will do those searches you suggested--thanks very
much. Obviously no matter what sort of site we have, these are things
we need to worry about.

More later I'm sure (& thanks!)
Jake Plissken

[a bunch of helpful things I cut because we both already know them]

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