Google statement

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In the news letter WebProNews, Garret French mentions that he spoke with somone
at Google. She mentioned that if a site has got dropped then one should check who
you link to and who links to *you*. Since it's more or less impossible to control who
links to me, isn't that a ... well bad ass algorithm? It's easy for competitors to
ones business by starting up a number of sites with bad content, such as keyword
stuffing and hidden content, which link to you.


Re: Google statement

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No comments, however, the article in question mentioned by Mike
quotes Craig Nevill-Manning, Google's Senior Research Scientist,
as saying:

"I apologize for the roller coaster. We're aware that changes in
the algorithm affect people's livelihoods. We don't make changes
lightly." =

Kayode Okeyode /

Re: Google statement

kayodeok wrote:
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Roller coaster? Thankfully I have never been on a roller coaster that
just plummets down and down! My site is getting drop sick!! :)

Extract the "URINE" in your reply :)

Re: Google statement

that's not new - that was always the case - don't wast too much time on PR
and linking, it's not the key to get to the top - it's a part of it but not
the main key.

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check who
control who
competitors to spoil
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gosh yeah theres probably a business in there "we ruin your
competitors" prob dead easy work too.

Re: Google statement

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The article said:

She replied, "If you dropped in rankings, go back and look at who you
linked to and who's linking to you. If any of these people are using
spam techniques, they're the reason your site no longer appears on

"Does this mean that new algorithm somehow measures the ‘neighborhood'
you're linked into more highly?"

What exactly are they refferring to?

Who and how could you be linked that it is considered spam?

I am drawing a blank here for some reason.

Some of you that were dropped, do you feel you were using bad linking?

Tim /

Re: Google statement

This one hurts.  So, if people linking to your site are using unethical
practices, it hurts you?  Is there anyway to get the googlebot to ignore these
links?  The reason it may kill me is that I am software developer, and crack
sites often link back to our website (obviously without permission).  God only
knows what techniques these sites use.  I am already losing money due to the
fact they have potentially cracked my software, but now I am going to lose out
in traffic because of them too?  Help!


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Re: Google statement

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Well, if all you have linking to you is a bunch of link farms, your PR
isn't exactly on a stable footing.

Sometimes they'll put up an unsolicited link to you, boosting your PR
a bit until such time as they are zeroed-out by Google's anti-spam

Some other links are ephemeral by their nature, such as mentions on
"what's new" pages or periodically changing spotlight review pages.


Re: Google statement

I read that article and others like it the past few weeks from various
places. If the guy who wrote it spoke to someone at google then I just
spoke to Elvis. Do you believe everything you read kids? This article
like all the others goes by the premise that google bans, punishes, and
does negative things to sites that are naughty or hand around with other
naughty sites. I don't buy that whole concept and never did.

I have 3 sites right now on page one of my serps. My sites had fallen to
oblivion right after 11/16 and I got them back again better than before
because the competition is still all gone and all my comercial site is
competing with now is information sites. I haven't changed who and where
and how I get my external links from either. All I've changed is the
coding on my pages to comply with what I'll call "The Google Relevancy

The whole things with 11/16 and new google algo rythm is about relevancy
and nothing else. What's more google does not ban, punich or spank
naughty sites. Google works on a system of rewards and sites that do
what they like get ranked higher in listing. Sites that don't do it
don't get punished they just don't get rewarded so if they drop to
oblivion with the new algo it's because tons of sites do do what google
now likes and get listed above the ones that don't.

Just so you understand what is meant by google relevancy I'm not talking
about the content of your site. While that is one of the factors it's
only one of many. There are a lot more that need to comply and pass the
google relevancy test. Google's idea of relevancy probably won't be the
same as yours and mine by the way and it may make you wonder. But hey
it's their search engine and they're the boss so if you want to reap the
rewards of high listing at your serps you have to do it their way.

What is google's new way? Study the current sites on pages one and two
of your serps real hard and you can figure it out by finding all the
things that all 20 sites have in common. Then experiment by using some
of those things on your sites. That's what I did and my sites are all
back again better than ever.

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And don't forget who pointed you in the right direction for those
results :-)) Like I said recently your current page should get you top
3 and a few days later it was number 3.

Do the other things I suggested and concentrate on the single domain
rather than loads and you'll have number 1 in no time.

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You don't have to do this since google has just the one algo and what
works for one highly competitive SERP will work for all SERPs. Some
SERPs are very, very easy to get whilst others are very, very

If I were to put a percentage difficulty on your SERP it would be low,
around 30%, I'd put Lingerie at around 70%, Search Engine Optimization
85% and phrases like Web Hosting 95%+.

Since it's not a hard SERP (you have 3rd and 4th) you can't draw
general conclusions from it since if you get a few things right and
others wrong you can still do very well. If you did this (which you
have) and you assumed what you did will work for competitive SERPs
you'll run into problems.

Let's take the Lingerie page you've made, If you were going after the
phrase in the title then you'll probably get number one no trouble at
all (I'd put that below 10% in difficulty). If you were after the last
two words, you'd struggle for number 1, but top 10 shouldn't be too
hard (20%), but the one word Lingerie, no chance (70%). I'll be
shocked if it gets and stays in the top 100 with the current algo.

Just to put things into perspective this site is number one
for the Search Engine Optimization SERP.

IMO the reason it has the number one spot is for the following

1. It's PR7 and the links giving it it's PR tend to be associated with
keyword rich anchor text. So it's got the anchor text right.

2. The title is quite good for this phrase. <title>Search Engine
Optimization Search Engine Placement</title>

3. It has a lot of on page stuff right including-

<H1>Search Engine Optimization</H1>

Overall it's got a lot right and this is why it has number 1.

It's also got a lot of the on page stuff wrong including-

1. The head is terrible-

<META NAME="description" CONTENT="Search engine optimization, Search
Engine Placement by SEO Inc. Search Engine Positioning, Search Engine
Placement and vital web site marketing">
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="search engine optimization,search
engine placement,Strategic Internet Marketing,search engine
positioning services,search engine marketing,seo,sep,seo company">
<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index, follow">

None of the above counts towards the SERP. the description should be
descriptive to attract visitors, since it doesn't count the other
three meta tags can be safely deleted.

2. Use of emphasising html tags used inappropriately (for SEO that

<b>This gives us a competitive edge over our competition, so we can
give you a competitive edge over yours.</b>

Bolding text tells google this is more relevant than non bolded text.
There are no keywords in this sentence, so a waste of a <b>.

3. Poor use of anchor text-

<a href="">Press Releases here</a>

4. Spamming the summary and leaving the ID for tables-

<table summary="search engine optimization" border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0" style="border-collapse: collapse"
bordercolor="#111111" width="93%" id="AutoNumber2">

5. Adding title text even though it's not counted-

<a href="" title="search engine optimization">Search Engine

6. Spamming alt attribute for non linking images even though it's not

<img src="images/table_global_bot.gif" alt="search engine positioning"
width="225" height="19">

7. A lot of unnecessary code and script that could be removed with
external CSS and JS files.

That's enough for now :-))

If you used this page to base your optimization strategy on you would
repeat some of these negatives and not produce the maximum results for
the resources you have available.

They have the SERP mostly because of the links from thousands of
client pages (over 16,000 on alltheweb!!) and the OK on page SEO.

Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 16/11/2003) /
Free SEO Mailing List

Re: Google statement

SEO Dave wrote:
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I won't forget, your advice was a major help to me getting my sites back
again on page one. So anyone raeding this I highly reccomend Dave's
advice he writes at this newsgroup if you want to improve your serps and
Dave was also extremely helpful to me via email on a one to one basis as
well and his consulting prices are
very reasonable too :)
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There I disagree with you. My serp is a tough one and if you still go
for a serp there you'll re-rate it's tougness when you find out. Your
serp is tougher because there are more sites but I can still get a page
one at lingerie and keep it there if I go all after it. Right now the
page is new and has no ranking yet but should soon and then should show
up somewhere in the top 10. To get page one at your serp I'd have to
create about 10-20 pages linking to my lingerie page and I haven't had
the time to do it yet. Also I'd have to do a bunch of posting using the
keyword lingerie in my anchor text at various places which I also
haven't had much time to do. I should have time to do both by next month
and will do it to show you I can do it. Then if you
like I get a page one for search engine optimization. The only one I
can't do and admit it is search engines. That serp is a bit above me.
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Re: Google statement

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Don't forget about other SE's.  Description and keywords may not be relevant
to Google (now), but Google is not the only game in town.  Inktomi is still
believed to give some relevance to keywords for instance.

John Merrell
Gateway Farm Alpacas

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Especially interesting news for any software sites if it's true.

It's also a possible reason for my site being dropped in which case
many small software producers will have the same problem.

Basically I used Robosoft - one of the 3 or 4 software site submission
aids to submit to 200-300 sites with software listings - ranging from
well known such as and to very obscure.
I can well imagine that a few of these sites are on googles bad list.
Many of them award stars which are clearly done by auto-response
software ... not far from there to doing other things that get you
labeled as a link farm.

A couple of questions:

1. By got dropped do you mean
- not in first few 100 SERPS for *some* search phrases OR
- not in SERPS for any search phrases
- cannot find on google even using your own brand name.

2. What can you do about this if you think it's what has happenned to

Software author. (please edit my email addr. to prove you're not a dumb 'bot)
Web Log Analyzer by Search Term
Kybie GetEmAll - Make IE an offline browser

Re: Google statement

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Same here.

I used Trialware Submit.

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You're right.

But if that's how Google's algorithm works, then I'm not sure that they're
on the right track. Trialware is a zillion dollar business and it's important
for small developers to get their software out to the public. If a download
site cheats, then ther'e nothing we can do about it. We don't decide how
they do their software ratings etc.

The basic idea of using link popularity as a measurement of how high
a page should be ranked is not 100% fool proof.

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