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I'm fed up with all the BS handed out here to mislead people so I'm
going to tell everyone how to get their site to page one.

1. Download the google toolbar for the pagerank bar. This is a must as
it will tell the pr of the sites you will need to add your link to.

2. Do a search got blogs in google and look for blogs that are at least
pr6. You don't need to slum in anything lower than a pr6 blog because
Google has artificially raised the pagerank of blogs because they own
most of the free blogger services that everyone is using today. Google
wants to play games and get rich off this well so can you along with

3. Look for the comments links that most blogs have and write a comment
telling them how nice their blog is as an excuse to add a link to your
own website (they ask for url or homepage in those comment links). Do
hundreds of these that are pr6 on up and you will have hundreds of back
links for your url which will zoom your site up the google ladder of
success. You'll be popular by Google's standards and be playing their
little game.

4. You will also need text links as well (links that google doesn't
allow as a back link). They are as important as back links in getting
higher ranking and listing in google. You get these from guestbooks.
Find hundreds of guestbooks and post away like mad at them but only ones
that allow you to put your own url at them. It is also good here to
finds guestbooks that are pr4 on up on there are tons of them.

5. Keywords - don't listen to the people here trying to mislead you on
purpose. You don't need that many keywords ag google's system is based
on link popularity of your site. Just have one keyword for your search
term in your title and maybe 5 on the page itself within the text and
some of the links of your page. All that does is tell google where you
want your site listed at not and it will not help you with ranking at
all. But it is good to use keywords that are not your main search ones
to get your site listed at other minor search terms.

Re: CAPS are selfish

Never trust  a man who uses CAPS for his thread title.

That little tutorial on getting good serps fell short by quite a way.
If you want the real deal on how to get good serps, here is the page for

Don't thank me, thank Brett

Re: CAPS are selfish

Nice one, requires a membership ;-)


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Re: CAPS are selfish

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Grrr. Top-posting interrupts logical flow of conversation.
Membership you say? Sorry , I didn't realise. Its free to join and that page
is really really worth reading.


Re: CAPS are selfish

Brothermark wrote:
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it's a girlie thing - you know: multi-tasking, butterfly minds etc.

William Tasso -

Re: CAPS are selfish

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Re: CAPS are selfish

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I'm sorry, I just have to comment. I'm a girl, and I don't top post, I
don't have a butterfly mind (unless it's one of brucie's butterflies), but
I do multi-task.  Well, to be honest, I DO have some friends who are
female that fit that profile.

Adrienne Boswell
Please respond to the group so others can share

Re: CAPS are selfish


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Mr. Tasso's family request that mourners do not send flowers, instead
make a donation to a relevant charity.


Re: CAPS are selfish says...
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It is no longer free.

Re: CAPS are selfish

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OK here it is:

The following will build a successful site in 1 years time via Google alone.
It can be done faster if you are a real go getter, or everyones favorite a
self starter.

A) Prep work and begin building content. Long before the domain name is
settled on, start putting together notes to build at least a 100 page site.
That's just for openers. That's 100 pages of real content, as opposed to
link pages, resource pages, about/copyright/tos...etc eg: fluff pages.

B) Domain name:
Easily brandable. You want "" and not "". Keyword
domains are out - branding and name recognition are in - big time in. The
value of keywords in a domain name have never been less to se's. Learn the
lesson of "" becomes "" and why they did it. It's one of
the most powerful gut check calls I've ever seen on the internet. That took
serious resolve and nerve to blow away several years of branding. (that is a
whole 'nother article, but learn the lesson as it applies to all of us).

C) Site Design:
The simpler the better. Rule of thumb: text content should out weight the
html content. The pages should validate and be usable in everything from
Lynx to leading edge browsers. eg: keep it close to html 3.2 if you can.
Spiders are not to the point they really like eating html 4.0 and the mess
that it can bring. Stay away from heavy: flash, dom, java, java script. Go
external with scripting languages if you must have them - there is little
reason to have them that I can see - they will rarely help a site and stand
to hurt it greatly due to many factors most people don't appreciate (search
engines distaste for js is just one of them).
Arrange the site in a logical manner with directory names hitting the top
keywords you wish to hit.
You can also go the other route and just throw everything in root (this is
rather controversial, but it's been producing good long term results across
many engines).
Don't clutter and don't spam your site with frivolous links like "best
viewed" or other counter like junk. Keep it clean and professional to the
best of your ability.

Learn the lesson of Google itself - simple is retro cool - simple is what
surfers want.

Speed isn't everything, it's almost the only thing. Your site should respond
almost instantly to a request. If you get into even 3-4 seconds delay until
"something happens" in the browser, you are in long term trouble. That 3-4
seconds response time may vary for site destined to live in other countries
than your native one. The site should respond locally within 3-4 seconds
(max) to any request. Longer than that, and you'll lose 10% of your audience
for every second. That 10% could be the difference between success and not.

The pages:

D) Page Size:
The smaller the better. Keep it under 15k if you can. The smaller the
better. Keep it under 12k if you can. The smaller the better. Keep it under
10k if you can - I trust you are getting the idea here. Over 5k and under
10k. Ya - that bites - it's tough to do, but it works. It works for search
engines, and it works for surfers. Remember, 80% of your surfers will be at
56k or even less.

E) Content:
Build one page of content and put online per day at 200-500 words. If you
aren't sure what you need for content, start with the Overture keyword
suggester and find the core set of keywords for your topic area. Those are
your subject starters.

F) Density, position, yada...
Simple old fashioned seo from the ground up.
Use the keyword once in title, once in description tag, once in a heading,
once in the url, once in bold, once in italic, once high on the page, and
hit the density between 5 and 20% (don't fret about it). Use good sentences
and speel check it ;-) Spell checking is becoming important as se's are
moving to auto correction during searches. There is no longer a reason to
look like you can't spell (unless you really are phonetically challenged).

G) Outbound Links:
From every page, link to one or two high ranking sites under that particular
keyword. Use your keyword in the link text (this is ultra important for the

H) Insite Cross links.
(cross links in this context are links WITHIN the same site)
Link to on topic quality content across your site. If a page is about food,
then make sure it links it to the apples and veggies page. Specifically with
Google, on topic cross linking is very important for sharing your pr value
across your site. You do NOT want an "all star" page that out performs the
rest of your site. You want 50 pages that produce 1 referral each a day and
do NOT want 1 page that produces 50 referrals a day. If you do find one page
that drastically out produces the rest of the site with Google, you need to
off load some of that pr value to other pages by cross linking heavily. It's
the old share the wealth thing.

I) Put it Online.
Don't go with virtual hosting - go with a stand alone ip.
Make sure the site is "crawlable" by a spider. All pages should be linked to
more than one other page on your site, and not more than 2 levels deep from
root. Link the topic vertically as much as possible back to root. A menu
that is present on every page should link to your sites main "topic index"
pages (the doorways and logical navigation system down into real content).
Don't put it online before you have a quality site to put online. It's worse
to put a "nothing" site online, than no site at all. You want it flushed out
from the start.

Go for a listing in the ODP. If you have the budget, then submit to
Looksmart and Yahoo. If you don't have the budget, then try for a freebie on
Yahoo (don't hold your breath).

J) Submit
Submit the root to: Google, Fast, Altavista, WiseNut, (write Teoma),
DirectHit, and Hotbot. Now comes the hard part - forget about submissions
for the next six months. That's right - submit and forget.

K) Logging and Tracking:
Get a quality logger/tracker that can do justice to inbound referrals based
on log files (don't use a lame graphic counter - you need the real deal). If
your host doesn't support referrers, then back up and get a new host. You
can't run a modern site without full referrals available 24x7x365 in real

L) Spiderlings:
Watch for spiders from se's. Make sure those that are crawling the full
site, can do so easily. If not, double check your linking system (use
standard hrefs) to make sure the spider found it's way throughout the site.
Don't fret if it takes two spiderings to get your whole site done by Google
or Fast. Other se's are pot luck and doubtful that you will be added at all
if not within 6 months.

M) Topic directories.
Almost every keyword sector has an authority hub on it's topic. Go submit
within the guidelines.

N) Links
Look around your keyword sector in Googles version of the ODP. (this is best
done AFTER getting an odp listing - or two). Find sites that have links
pages or freely exchange links. Simply request a swap. Put a page of on
topic, in context links up your self as a collection spot.
Don't freak if you can't get people to swap links - move on. Try to swap
links with one fresh site a day. A simple personal email is enough. Stay low
key about it and don't worry if site Z won't link with you - they will -
eventually they will.

O) Content.
One page of quality content per day. Timely, topical articles are always the
best. Try to stay away from to much "bloggin" type personal stuff and look
more for "article" topics that a general audience will like. Hone your
writing skills and read up on the right style of "web speak" that tends to
work with the fast and furious web crowd.

Lots of text breaks - short sentences - lots of dashes - something that
reads quickly.

Most web users don't actually read, they scan. This is why it is so
important to keep low key pages today. People see a huge overblown page by
random, and a portion of them will hit the back button before trying to
decipher it. They've got better things to do that waste 15 seconds (a
stretch) at understanding your whiz bang flash menu system. Because some big
support site can run flashed out motorhead pages, that is no indication that
you can. You don't have the pull factor they do.

Use headers, and bold standout text liberally on your pages as logical
separators. I call them scanner stoppers where the eye will logically come
to rest on the page.

P) Gimmicks.
Stay far away from any "fades of the day" or anything that appears spammy,
unethical, or tricky. Plant yourself firmly on the high ground in the middle
of the road.

Q) Link backs
When YOU receive requests for links, check the site out before linking back
with them. Check them through Google and their pr value. Look for directory
listings. Don't link back to junk just because they asked. Make sure it is a
site similar to yours and on topic.

R) Rounding out the offerings:
Use options such as Email-a-friend, forums, and mailing lists to round out
your sites offerings. Hit the top forums in your market and read, read, read
until your eyes hurt you read so much.
Stay away from "affiliate fades" that insert content on to your site.

S) Beware of Flyer and Brochure Syndrome
If you have an ecom site or online version of bricks and mortar, be careful
not to turn your site into a brochure. These don't work at all. Think about
what people want. They aren't coming to your site to view "your content",
they are coming to your site looking for "their content". Talk as little
about your products and yourself as possible in articles (raise
eyebrows...yes, I know).

T) Build one page of content per day.
Head back to the Overture suggestion tool to get ideas for fresh pages.

U) Study those logs.
After 30-60 days you will start to see a few referrals from places you've
gotten listed. Look for the keywords people are using. See any bizarre
combinations? Why are people using those to find your site? If there is
something you have over looked, then build a page around that topic. Retro
engineer your site to feed the search engine what it wants.
If your site is about "oranges", but your referrals are all about "orange
citrus fruit", then you can get busy building articles around "citrus" and
"fruit" instead of the generic "oranges".
The search engines will tell you exactly what they want to be fed - listen
closely, there is gold in referral logs, it's just a matter of panning for

V) Timely Topics
Nothing breeds success like success. Stay abreast of developments in your
keyword sector. If big site "Z" is coming out with product "A" at the end of
the year, then build a page and have it ready in October so that search
engines get it by December. eg: go look at all the Xbox and XP sites in
Google right now - those are sites that were on the ball last summer.

W) Friends and Family
Networking is critical to the success of a site. This is where all that time
you spend in forums will pay off. pssst: Here's the catch-22 about forums:
lurking is almost useless. The value of a forum is in the interaction with
your fellow colleagues and cohorts. You learn long term by the interaction -
not by just reading.
Networking will pay off in link backs, tips, email exchanges, and it will
put you "in the loop" of your keyword sector.

X) Notes, Notes, Notes
If you build one page per day, you will find that brain storm like
inspiration will hit you in the head at some magic point. Whether it is in
the shower (dry off first), driving down the road (please pull over), or
just parked at your desk, write it down! 10 minutes of work later, you will
have forgotten all about that great idea you just had. Write it down, and
get detailed about what you are thinking. When the inspirational juices are
no longer flowing, come back to those content ideas. It sounds simple, but
it's a life saver when the ideas stop coming.

Y) Submission check at six months
Walk back through your submissions and see if you got listed in all the
search engines you submitted to after six months. If not, then resubmit and
forget again. Try those freebie directories again too.

Z) Build one page of quality content per day.
Starting to see a theme here? Google loves content, lots of quality content.
Broad based over a wide range of keywords. At the end of a years time, you
should have around 400 pages of content. That will get you good placement
under a wide range of keywords, generate recip links, and overall position
your site to stand on it's own two feet.

Do those 26 things, and I guarantee you that in ones years time you will
call your site a success. It will be drawing between 500 and 2000 referrals
a day from search engines. If you build a good site with an average of 4 to
5 pages per user, you should be in the 10-15k page views per day range in
one years time. What you do with that traffic is up to you, but that is more
than enough to "do something" with.

Re: CAPS are selfish

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 23:47:05 +0100, "Brothermark"

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I've read this before and a lot of it is rubbish, so take a lot of it
with a large pinch of salt. There are so many fundamental flaws like
linking to two external sites per page!! Don't do that. And stuff you
don't need to do well (separate IP) that the good stuff is seriously
watered down.

My main sites just over one year old, on October the 1st we received
4,938 unique visitors (2 and a half times more than the article
promises), 61,116 page views which is 4 to 5 times what the article
promises. Very similar stats for October the 2nd as well.

BTW this was at very little monetary cost (the sites on a virtual
server), the expense was my time.

Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 31/08/2003) /

Re: CAPS are selfish

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:45:55 +0100, "Brothermark"

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I am new to group, so excuse my naivete, but what is top posting?

Is it fun?  Is it legal?  Is it moral?

Thanks for the advice.

Re: CAPS are selfish

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Bingo, you didn't do it that time. Looks like you worked it out :)
Post your message under the text that you want to respond to so that the
conversation runs chronologically from top-to-bottom

Re: CAPS are selfish

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:47:51 +0100, "Brothermark"

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I disagree, but since the group seems be against top posting, I will
avoid it.

Personally I prefer top posting.  How many messages and replies and
replies to replies need to carry the "conversation."  Every one of
these I have to scroll down to see the poster's comments.

If I started reading the most current post, I would agree with you,
assuming the most current post also accurately and completely copied
all previous posts, which is not always true.

To me a faster way to read and follow a conversation is with top
posting.  The reason: with my newsreader, Agent, and with most
newsreaders I think, you can show  the list of messages in one window
and in another window show the body, or at least part of it.  

I find this a quick way to read lots of posts.  I can scroll down the
list of messages, from oldest to newest,  and I can read the body in
another window.  But I can not see the entire body when doing this.
So with bottom posting if I want to see want a poster says, I have to
move to a message and then scroll all the way down to the message.  If
there are 10 replies in a conversation, that means I have to scroll
ten times.  Does not seem efficient to me.

While bottom posting does let you follow the conversation, I prefer to
follow conversations as they are posted, one message at a time,
without relying on a conversation to be repeated in every message.

Also bottom posting and following a conversation via a bottom post,
means you are counting on the poster you are currently reading to
accurately duplicate previous messages, and I have found too many
posters snip and distort a message to which they are replying.

(This by the way is not always bad.  Replies to long posts asking for
technical info and sometimes social or political posts with long
comments and trains of logic  are best answered by clipping and
addressing short sections of a message.)

Top posting to me means you could see my post without having to scroll
down through the message, and I am counting on you the reader to
follow the conversation by reading  each message as posted.  By the
way since I know sometimes people miss messages, I always try to
duplicate the message to which I posting at the bottom of my post, so
you can find it if you want to.

Again I prefer top posting, but since the group is reading my posts
and not me, I will follow whatever conventions it is felt help convey
my messages.

Re: CAPS are selfish

JA wrote:
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when in Rome ...

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then snip out all the garbage and leave in that which gives context to your


William Tasso -

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Re: CAPS are selfish

Don't assume because a vocal few here care how a person posts the
quiet majority also cares.

I don't, the people who go on and on about how you should and
shouldn't post are much more irritating.

Post how you like, last time I looked this was a newsgroup which no
one owns.

Free Search Engine Optimization, SEO and
Search Engine Placement Tips (updated 10/10/2003) /

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Re: CAPS are selfish

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It's because people are too lazy to use <snip>

Me too!


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Re: CAPS are selfish

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good point

Re: CAPS are selfish

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Sorry about the top posting, Microshaft Outlook Duress puts me there when I
hit the reply button, I keep forgetting about it.

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