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Subject Author Date
problem with validated site Corey Walker 10-21-2007
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Posted by André Gillibert on October 22, 2007, 3:45 pm
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

> "Our creative web design process follows strict adherence to 'Web 2.0'
> development standards ..." <lol> Then he has the audacity to place
> links to the W3 validators. Sure, the page may be valid HTML, but it is
> a sematic mess.
>

possibility of writing HTML converying zero semantic information, based on
nested SPAN elements.

It's archived at
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html/msg/5903ecc2af740dbc?dmode=source&output=gplain
When I wrote that, I didn't know this was real.



--
If you've a question that doesn't belong to Usenet, contact me at

Posted by Adrienne Boswell on October 21, 2007, 7:18 pm
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Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Corey Walker

> Hello:
>
> I developed a nice looking web page which provided people with a brief
> overview of our society's publications (our different newsletters).
> However, while I'm by no means an expert or professional website
> designer, I know enough about XHTML 1.0 to know that the best way to
> guarantee interoperability on all, or at least most browsers,
> including lynx is to make sure my site complies with the w3 standards.
> So, I ran my site through the XHTML 1.0 Transitional validator, and it
> didn't pass, so I had it clean up my markup using Tidy. I then copy
> and pasted that markup into the validator, and it validated. However,
> when I viewed the valid page online, it looked funny.
>
> This is the page: http://www.reaps.org/walker_html/publications.html .
> I'm not sure why the different paragraphs all have different fonts,
> when
> I can't even see a <font> tag.

In addition to what others have said, the c1, c2 stuff is something that
Tidy will generate when _trying_ to convert from tag soup to CSS - and
it's actually worse.

> My challenge is that a bunch of pages
> on our site were recently redesigned by a professional website
> designer, and now every time I create a new page, I try to use other
> pages he's done as a template. But I'm not familiar with all his code
> (for example, I have no idea what the <span> tag does).

Think about using the right tool for the job. Almost all HTML elements
are named for what they do, for example, P is Paragraph, OL is Ordered
List, DIV is Division, TABLE is table, etc.

Now, SPAN is used when you want to SPAN something across some content,
for example, <p>This is a paragraph, and this word is <span
style="color:#ff0">red</span>, while this word is <span style="font-
weight:bold">in bold</span>.</p>

Span is like pepper, use it to bring flavor, but use sparingly.

> And since I
> can't find our O'Reilly HTML book around here, I'm hoping somebody can
> take a look at the source code, and let me know what I've done wrong,
> and how I can fix it.
>

Look at the HTML specification <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/>, CSS
<http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/>, and go over to http://www.htmldog.com
for turorials and such.

> Also, if I want to make each paragraph a different colour, what is the
> valid way of doing that in XHTML 1.0 Transitional. I will eventually
> use CSS for my formatting, but I want to wait until my paid time is
> does, and I'm volunteering again. Then, I can take as much time as I
> need to figure out the CSS code, without worrying about how well I'm
> using my time.
>
> Thanks for your help; I look forward to learning from your feedback.
>
> Corey Walker
> Webmaster, Recycling and Environmental Action Planning Society

What you really want is something like:
<div id="header">
<ul id="menu">
<li>Membership</li>... etc
</ul>
</div>
<div id="leftside">
<ul id="submenu">
<li>Home</li>... etc
</ul>
<div id="content">
<p>Some content is here.</p>
<p>Some more content is here.</p>
</div>
<div id="footer">
<ul>
<li>Home</li>... etc
</ul>
</div>

Then you can style the header, leftside, content and footer, and then
style those elements within each. Take notice of the cascade.

--
Adrienne Boswell at Home
Arbpen Web Site Design Services
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share


Posted by André Gillibert on October 22, 2007, 3:50 pm
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Adrienne Boswell wrote:

> What you really want is something like:
> <div id="header">
> <ul id="menu">
> <li>Membership</li>... etc
> </ul>
> </div>
> <div id="leftside">
> <ul id="submenu">
> <li>Home</li>... etc
> </ul>
> <div id="content">
> <p>Some content is here.</p>
> <p>Some more content is here.</p>
> </div>
> <div id="footer">
> <ul>
> <li>Home</li>... etc
> </ul>
> </div>
>

DIV and SPAN are like pepper... Use them sparingly.
I tried to write non-CSS HTML renderers, and have been incredibely annoyed
by the DIV element. Its semantics are incredibely unclear: Sometimes the
DIV should be interpreted as a wrapper that should be replaced by its
contents, sometimes it indicates a separate section or figure that surely
could be rendered at a different place. I don't like SPAN, but DIV is much
worse.
Remove these DIV, and the page will be better, and yet, with CSS, it can
still be styled as you wish.

--
If you've a question that doesn't belong to Usenet, contact me at

Posted by Corey Walker on October 22, 2007, 1:21 am
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By the way, the story behind how Digital Sunshine got selected to redo
the site, was that the guy used to be my boss' neighbour. Talk about a
pathetic way of selecting somebody. She liked the site he did for my
church, the Salvation Army in Prince George (www.tsainpg.com) and so she
asked him to redo our site. Yet, when I had her e-mail him asking him to
fix a few things, he hasn't done it. I want the site done in frames, so
if I change a URL, I don't have to change fifty thousand links, but just
one links page that appears in a frame in every page.

I probably shouldn't have uninstalled Adobe Page Mill from my iMac; it
might have made my life easier. But probably not. I think coding
everything by hand in Notepad or SimpleText is the best way to go. And
stupid OS X doesn't even had a decent text editor for doing HTML in.

>
> Corey Walker
> Webmaster, Recycling and Environmental Action Planning Society

Posted by Beauregard T. Shagnasty on October 22, 2007, 1:42 am
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Corey Walker wrote:

> By the way, the story behind how Digital Sunshine got selected to redo
> the site, was that the guy used to be my boss' neighbour. Talk about a
> pathetic way of selecting somebody.

I've heard worse.

> She liked the site he did for my church, the Salvation Army in Prince
> George (www.tsainpg.com)

<bleahch!>

<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11">

> and so she asked him to redo our site. Yet, when I had her e-mail him
> asking him to fix a few things, he hasn't done it. I want the site
> done in frames, so if I change a URL, I don't have to change fifty
> thousand links, but just one links page that appears in a frame in
> every page.

No, you don't want to use frames.
http://www.html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil

Look into server-side includes.
http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Include_one_file_in_another

> I probably shouldn't have uninstalled Adobe Page Mill from my iMac;

One job I got was to repair a PageMill site. The client wondered why it
never appeared in Google. Heh, the *entire* site was a series of images;
not a bit of indexable text anywhere. I hope you don't do that. <g>

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

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