Power Supply issues

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How much is it an issue the
power supply when overclocking
a Pentium D 805?

I have a cheapo supply right now
15A 3.3V
30A 5V
15A 12V

pretty cheap...but hey it gets me
3.2Ghz  from a 2.66Ghz chip.

I also have a server supply (Topower)
which is rated at

26A  3.3V
42A  5V
18A  12V

The 5V and the 3V volts supply the chip right?

Eventhough its 24 pins...I can just plug it into a 20 pin connector
right.

Would I be wiser to use the server supply instead.

Any help would be appreciated.



Re: Power Supply issues



'Don W. McCollough' wrote, in part:
| How much is it an issue the
| power supply when overclocking
| a Pentium D 805?
|
_____

The CPU alone is not enough information.
If you don't have enough power, it is a very big issue.
If you have just enough power, an issue will arise sooner or later.

Do you intend to overclock?
What motherboard do you intend to use?
What Graphics Adapter?
What drives?

'Cheapo supply' is not enough information.
    What version of ATX power supply standards does it meet?
    What is its total power rating?

The most important voltage is + 12 Volts as that furnishes power for the CPU
and any high performance graphics adapters, as well as for the motors that
rotate hard drives and removable media drives.  (15A X 12V) = 18 Watts;
early enough for the CPU alone, especially when overclocking.

Your 'server supply' is an old one, since the +5 volt amperage (42 A) and
the +3.3 volt amperage (26 A) are far more than is needed for any recent
system (it is not an ATX 12V standard.)  The +12 V amperage is barely
adequate for a standard Pentium D 805 system with a low power graphics
adapter.

| the 5V and the 3V volts supply the chip right?

Wrong.

| Eventhough its 24 pins...I can just plug it into a 20 pin connector right

Wrong.

| Would I be wiser to use the server supply instead.

Don't use either one.

If you post more details, you will probably get power supply
recommendations.  You need a power supply that meets ATX12V 2.03
specifications; see
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf .
(Unless you use a micro form factor case)

Phil Weldon




| How much is it an issue the
| power supply when overclocking
| a Pentium D 805?
|
| I have a cheapo supply right now
| 15A 3.3V
| 30A 5V
| 15A 12V
|
| pretty cheap...but hey it gets me
| 3.2Ghz  from a 2.66Ghz chip.
|
| I also have a server supply (Topower)
| which is rated at
|
| 26A  3.3V
| 42A  5V
| 18A  12V
|
| The 5V and the 3V volts supply the chip right?
|
| Eventhough its 24 pins...I can just plug it into a 20 pin connector
| right.
|
| Would I be wiser to use the server supply instead.
|
| Any help would be appreciated.
|
|



Re: Power Supply issues




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As much as is feasible.  I'm just curious whether I have a snafu
with my motherboard or my power supply.

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ASROCK 775Dual-880Pro PT880

Cheap!  I bought it at newegg for $30.

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VGA ASUS N EN7600GS SILENT PCI-Ex.

I was going to use a N6800XT AGP, but I couldn't
handle the noise.

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Well, I'm using a Fujitsu MAS 15K RPM drive for the C:
1- 250- GB  Western Digitial PATA
2- 250- GB Seagate ATA 100s
1- 200- GB Seagate ATA 100
1- Panasonic DVD multidrive.

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Dunno...it say that its a 400watt supply...but I have a 24pin Topower
server supply thats rated at 420watts and it much better built and supply
way more amperage accross the board.

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You mean 180watts.

The intel product data sheet says that the 3.2 Pentium D "8" series uses
130Watts at 3.2Ghz...so
maybe 160 watts isn't inconceivable when the processor is clocked a 3.5ghz?

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Its for a dual Xeon 604 system I used to have.  Its a Topower supply...they
basically
invented the 24 pin server power supply...at least they're suing to make it
so.

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Hmm.  I thought that the drives used 12V and the motherboard used the 5V and
3.3V...
guess I didn't know...


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Makes sense.   Wont try that.

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I look into it.  2.03 eh?

How about this one?

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ESTAR-580-N&cat=PWR&cpc=PWRbsc

or this one

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=APGM480W&cpc=RECOM

give me an example...please  :-)

Thanks.  I know Phil has been posting here quite a while.




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Re: Power Supply issues




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Well, if my memory serves me.

Anyway...here's one on Ebay that looks interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-600-Watt-ATX-2-03-24-Pin-SATA-AUX-PC-Power-Supply_W0QQitemZ250005959517QQihZ015QQcategoryZ44949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem





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Re: Power Supply issues



'Don W. McCollough' wrote, in part:
| > Well, I'm using a Fujitsu MAS 15K RPM drive for the C:
| > 1- 250- GB  Western Digitial PATA
| > 2- 250- GB Seagate ATA 100s
| > 1- 200- GB Seagate ATA 100
| > 1- Panasonic DVD multidrive.
| >
| >>
| >> 'Cheapo supply' is not enough information.
| >>    What version of ATX power supply standards does it meet?
| >
| > Dunno...it say that its a 400watt supply...but I have a 24pin Topower
| > server supply thats rated at 420watts and it much better built and
supply
| > way more amperage accross the board.
_____

There is a very good reason for getting a high quality power supply when
overclocking.  It eliminates one more variable that could make the CPU
unstable.  Overclocking requires tradeoffs.  Intel engineers and produces
CPUs with a good margin of stability.  Raising the core voltage and reducing
the operating temperature helps extend the margin of stability, resulting in
higher overclock possibilities.  Any problems with the power for the CPU and
interface chips reduce the margin of stability.  Unless you have done a lot
of overclocking, it is a good idea to eliminate as many possible problems
before you start.

You can certainly overclock with cheap, marginal power supplies ( I
certainly have, back in the days when 60 Watts was a big draw for a CPU )
... but the results will likely be longer coming and slower.  The two power
supplies you original posted are too old to even reach marginal for your
proposed CPU.

On the other hand, your motherboard is problematical also, so maybe you
should just try the power supplies you already have.  It makes me wonder,
however, why you are stinting on the motherboard and power supply when you
list three 250 GByte hard drives plus a 15,000 rpm hard drive; those four
drives, if they spin up at the same time, will draw, during spin-up, over 8
amperes from the + 12 V supply.  Also, you really shouldn't put a hard drive
on the same channel as a DVD drive, as the DVD drive will slow the
performance of the hard drive.

Research twice, cut once.

Good luck.

Phil Weldon

|
| >
| >> 'Don W. McCollough' wrote, in part:
| >> | How much is it an issue the
| >> | power supply when overclocking
| >> | a Pentium D 805?
| >> |
| >> _____
| >>
| >> The CPU alone is not enough information.
| >> If you don't have enough power, it is a very big issue.
| >> If you have just enough power, an issue will arise sooner or later.
| >>
| >> Do you intend to overclock?
| >
| > As much as is feasible.  I'm just curious whether I have a snafu
| > with my motherboard or my power supply.
| >
| >> What motherboard do you intend to use?
| >
| > ASROCK 775Dual-880Pro PT880
| >
| > Cheap!  I bought it at newegg for $30.
| >
| >> What Graphics Adapter?
| >
| > VGA ASUS N EN7600GS SILENT PCI-Ex.
| >
| > I was going to use a N6800XT AGP, but I couldn't
| > handle the noise.
| >
| >> What drives?
| >
| > Well, I'm using a Fujitsu MAS 15K RPM drive for the C:
| > 1- 250- GB  Western Digitial PATA
| > 2- 250- GB Seagate ATA 100s
| > 1- 200- GB Seagate ATA 100
| > 1- Panasonic DVD multidrive.
| >
| >>
| >> 'Cheapo supply' is not enough information.
| >>    What version of ATX power supply standards does it meet?
| >
| > Dunno...it say that its a 400watt supply...but I have a 24pin Topower
| > server supply thats rated at 420watts and it much better built and
supply
| > way more amperage accross the board.
| >
| >>    What is its total power rating?
| >>
| >> The most important voltage is + 12 Volts as that furnishes power for
the
| >> CPU
| >> and any high performance graphics adapters, as well as for the motors
| >> that
| >> rotate hard drives and removable media drives.  (15A X 12V) = 18 Watts;
| >
| >
| > You mean 180watts.
| >
| > The intel product data sheet says that the 3.2 Pentium D "8" series uses
| > 130Watts at 3.2Ghz...so
| > maybe 160 watts isn't inconceivable when the processor is clocked a
| > 3.5ghz?
| >
| >> early enough for the CPU alone, especially when overclocking.
| >>
| >> Your 'server supply' is an old one, since the +5 volt amperage (42 A)
and
| >> the +3.3 volt amperage (26 A) are far more than is needed for any
recent
| >> system (it is not an ATX 12V standard.)  The +12 V amperage is barely
| >> adequate for a standard Pentium D 805 system with a low power graphics
| >> adapter.
| >
| > Its for a dual Xeon 604 system I used to have.  Its a Topower
| > supply...they basically
| > invented the 24 pin server power supply...at least they're suing to make
| > it so.
| >
| >> | the 5V and the 3V volts supply the chip right?
| >>
| >> Wrong.
| >
| > Hmm.  I thought that the drives used 12V and the motherboard used the 5V
| > and 3.3V...
| > guess I didn't know...
| >
| >
| >> | Eventhough its 24 pins...I can just plug it into a 20 pin connector
| >> right
| >>
| >> Wrong.
| >>
| >> | Would I be wiser to use the server supply instead.
| >>
| >> Don't use either one.
| >
| > Makes sense.   Wont try that.
| >
| >> If you post more details, you will probably get power supply
| >> recommendations.  You need a power supply that meets ATX12V 2.03
| >> specifications; see
| >>
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf
| >> .
| >> (Unless you use a micro form factor case)
| >
| >
| > I look into it.  2.03 eh?
| >
| > How about this one?
| >
| > http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ESTAR-580-N&cat=PWR&cpc=PWRbsc
| >
| > or this one
| >
| > http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=APGM480W&cpc=RECOM
| >
| > give me an example...please  :-)
| >
| > Thanks.  I know Phil has been posting here quite a while.
|
| Well, if my memory serves me.
|
| Anyway...here's one on Ebay that looks interesting.
|
|
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-600-Watt-ATX-2-03-24-Pin-SATA-AUX-PC-Power-Supply_W0QQitemZ250005959517QQihZ015QQcategoryZ44949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
|
|
|
|
|
| >
| >> Phil Weldon
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >>
| >> | How much is it an issue the
| >> | power supply when overclocking
| >> | a Pentium D 805?
| >> |
| >> | I have a cheapo supply right now
| >> | 15A 3.3V
| >> | 30A 5V
| >> | 15A 12V
| >> |
| >> | pretty cheap...but hey it gets me
| >> | 3.2Ghz  from a 2.66Ghz chip.
| >> |
| >> | I also have a server supply (Topower)
| >> | which is rated at
| >> |
| >> | 26A  3.3V
| >> | 42A  5V
| >> | 18A  12V
| >> |
| >> | The 5V and the 3V volts supply the chip right?
| >> |
| >> | Eventhough its 24 pins...I can just plug it into a 20 pin connector
| >> | right.
| >> |
| >> | Would I be wiser to use the server supply instead.
| >> |
| >> | Any help would be appreciated.
| >> |
| >> |
| >>
| >>
| >
| >
|
|



Re: Power Supply issues




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Cheap power supplies are one of the top sources for intermittent tyoe
failures that are difficult to troubleshoot.  Random rebooting, BSOD's,
"windows has just recovered from a system error"  (if you're lucky) etc,
etc.  Cheap PSU's proabably cause more RMA's of perfectly good components
than say "buyers remorse".



Re: Power Supply issues




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<snip>
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Ditto!

"buyers remorse" - ...cute! :o))



Re: Power Supply issues



Don W. McCollough wrote:
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I can see you're shopping with a tight budget. This powersupply has only 19
Amps on the 12V rail. Even my Enermax 365 Watt can beat that.

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Even worse, only 17 Amps on the 12V rail...

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If you can afford it, get an Enermax / Antec / A-Open... You pay more, but
you get more. My Enermax lkasted me three generations of PC's.

For example:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SP-400-DT&cat=CAS
Even this 'lowly' 400 Watt Antec supports 10 and 15 amps on the two 12V
rails (total = 25)...

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TPII-430-DT&cat=CAS
This Antec 430 Watt even sports 17 amps on BOTH 12V rails, a whopping total
of 34 Amps on 12V!

--
Grtz, Thomas



Re: Power Supply issues



Thomas wrote:
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http://www.coolergiant.co.uk/products/psu/fma/eg365ax-ve (g)fma/spec.asp

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Re: Power Supply issues




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Thomas...thanks for being helpful.   I noticed on the specs for the Antec
430
http://www.antec.com/specs/TPII430_spe.html
that it had a secondary 17A 12V2 output.   Would that secondary output
be the 12V supply in the separate 4pin (P4) style connector...or the extra 4
pin
connector that attaches to the 20pin ATX connector?

Just curious.

And do you know of any websites that demonstrate the performance of a system
by showing how 2 different power supply (one cheap and one specialized) run
an OCed system.

Though I could just do a google myself...

Don

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Re: Power Supply issues



Don W. McCollough wrote:
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I read that 1 rail is for the processor, while the other rail is for the
rest. It seems logical that you're right :-)

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PSU doesn't mean anything to performance. A PSU will either be strong enough
for your system, or not strong enough. If not strong enough, it won't boot.
If JUST strong enough, you'll hover on the very edge of stability, which is
where many problems with the shitty low-cost PSU's comes from...
A better PSU improves stability and ensures you that you wont have a
PSU-blowout, that takes out your mainboard.

--
Thomas.



Re: Power Supply issues



'Thomas' wrote, in part:
| PSU doesn't mean anything to performance. A PSU will either be strong
enough
| for your system, or not strong enough.
_____

Not completely true.  A poor quality power supply may have enough output
power, but compared to a higher quality supply
    *  the voltage regulation may not be as good
    *  the DC voltages may have more noise
    *  the impedance may not match well for the purpose
    *  the efficiency may be less, resulting in more power drawn from the
mains, and more heat generated in the case
    *  the fan(s) may be less reliable
    *  'catch fire and burn' may be more likely
    *  DOA numbers may be higher
    *  components may be of lesser quality and fail soon
    *  and on and on

Phil Weldon

| Don W. McCollough wrote:
| >>> give me an example...please  :-)
| >>
| >> If you can afford it, get an Enermax / Antec / A-Open... You pay
| >> more, but you get more. My Enermax lkasted me three generations of
| >> PC's. For example:
| >> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SP-400-DT&cat=CAS
| >> Even this 'lowly' 400 Watt Antec supports 10 and 15 amps on the two
| >> 12V rails (total = 25)...
| >>
| >> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TPII-430-DT&cat=CAS
| >> This Antec 430 Watt even sports 17 amps on BOTH 12V rails, a whopping
| >> total of 34 Amps on 12V!
| >
| > Thomas...thanks for being helpful.   I noticed on the specs for the
| > Antec 430
| > http://www.antec.com/specs/TPII430_spe.html
| > that it had a secondary 17A 12V2 output.   Would that secondary output
| > be the 12V supply in the separate 4pin (P4) style connector...or the
| > extra 4 pin
| > connector that attaches to the 20pin ATX connector?
|
| I read that 1 rail is for the processor, while the other rail is for the
| rest. It seems logical that you're right :-)
|
| > Just curious.
| >
| > And do you know of any websites that demonstrate the performance of a
| > system by showing how 2 different power supply (one cheap and one
| > specialized) run an OCed system.
|
| PSU doesn't mean anything to performance. A PSU will either be strong
enough
| for your system, or not strong enough. If not strong enough, it won't
boot.
| If JUST strong enough, you'll hover on the very edge of stability, which
is
| where many problems with the shitty low-cost PSU's comes from...
| A better PSU improves stability and ensures you that you wont have a
| PSU-blowout, that takes out your mainboard.
|
| --
| Thomas.
|
|



Re: Power Supply issues



When you think about your total investment in terms of your system,
the cost of a kick ass PSU really isn't that big of a deal!!

I trust the tech people at my local Tiger Direct. They all say that
Coolmax makes a really nice PSU for the price. To be sure, they could
steer me to something more expensive, but I bought a 600W Coolmax for
< $60.00.

It has taken everything I can plug into it. So many times when things
happen, the PSU becomes a question. Spend $60.00 and you can
completely ( or almost completely) remove that source from your list
of possibilities, i.e. you know your power is there and as Phil says,
CLEAN.

Anyway, it's kind of cool to see the lights dim when I hit the power
switch!!!

That's my $00.02

Regards,

Al

P.S.

Don't forget, you can always take your "good" PSU to your next build
if you so desire. Good PSU's tend to last a long time especially if
they're oversized.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:02:16 GMT, "Don W. McCollough"

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