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ntfs special permission question djc 09-01-2006
Posted by djc on September 1, 2006, 1:50 pm
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what the difference, with respect to files, between these two special
permissions:

create files / write data
create folders / append data

the 2nd part of each of those refer to files (write and append) and here are
descriptions I've read:

'write data': allows or denies user to modify or overwrite existing data in
a file
'append data': allows or denies the user the right to add data to the end of
files. This does not include making changes to any existing data within a
file.

taking a simple text file for example:
1) 'write data': if file is 500KB does this mean you could modify or
overwrite data in it as long as the file remains 500KB or smaller? In other
words once your 'modifications' grow the file to over 500KB the end of the
file changes and it becomes an 'append', which means you need the 'append
data' permission as well????

2) maybe my visualization of actually opening up the file in notepad.exe and
editing is not a good way to go? Maybe these permissions apply at a lower
level? to clarify what I mean, lets say the functions the user performs via
notepad.exe gui are the top layer, the layer I'm visualizing when trying to
make sense of these 2 permissions. The layer below this being notepad.exe's
actual code (outside the control of the user/gui) and *how* it opens the
file... for example, if I remember correctly from some older programming
experience, when actually coding a program that opens a file you specify the
'mode' you want to open it in.. like read only, append mode, etc... the mode
would dictate what you could do with the file. Is possibly that open 'mode'
that these permissions are refering to? I'm probably reading way to far into
this.. plus unless you have done some programming like this it won't make
any sense to you.

any input on this would be appreciated. thanks.



Posted by Steven L Umbach on September 1, 2006, 3:29 pm
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About all I have ever seen on that subject is what you have shown. My advice
is if you have a need to fine tune a user's permissions is to test how those
permissions work with the application and the data files for it. To me what
it seems to indicate for example is if you have a text file the append data
would allow you to add more text to the already existing text while write
data would allow you to edit the whole document. However in real use it may
not be that simple. Word for instance deletes the old file and writes the
new file from the temporary file you are working on when you edit a document
which also means the user needs delete permissions for the document he is
editing.

Steve


> what the difference, with respect to files, between these two special
> permissions:
>
> create files / write data
> create folders / append data
>
> the 2nd part of each of those refer to files (write and append) and here
> are descriptions I've read:
>
> 'write data': allows or denies user to modify or overwrite existing data
> in a file
> 'append data': allows or denies the user the right to add data to the end
> of files. This does not include making changes to any existing data within
> a file.
>
> taking a simple text file for example:
> 1) 'write data': if file is 500KB does this mean you could modify or
> overwrite data in it as long as the file remains 500KB or smaller? In
> other words once your 'modifications' grow the file to over 500KB the end
> of the file changes and it becomes an 'append', which means you need the
> 'append data' permission as well????
>
> 2) maybe my visualization of actually opening up the file in notepad.exe
> and editing is not a good way to go? Maybe these permissions apply at a
> lower level? to clarify what I mean, lets say the functions the user
> performs via notepad.exe gui are the top layer, the layer I'm visualizing
> when trying to make sense of these 2 permissions. The layer below this
> being notepad.exe's actual code (outside the control of the user/gui) and
> *how* it opens the file... for example, if I remember correctly from some
> older programming experience, when actually coding a program that opens a
> file you specify the 'mode' you want to open it in.. like read only,
> append mode, etc... the mode would dictate what you could do with the
> file. Is possibly that open 'mode' that these permissions are refering to?
> I'm probably reading way to far into this.. plus unless you have done some
> programming like this it won't make any sense to you.
>
> any input on this would be appreciated. thanks.
>



Posted by djc on September 1, 2006, 4:13 pm
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Thanks again Steve. I do appreciate your input. This is one of those things
where I know I could take a specific situation and figure it out but I was
looking for an easy 'this is how it is all the time' type of thing to just
remember. I know thats often just not possible. In my experience thus far, I
rarely have to use any of the special permissions. However, I'm brushing up
my knowledge to prepare for upgrading my certifications.

thanks again.

> About all I have ever seen on that subject is what you have shown. My
> advice is if you have a need to fine tune a user's permissions is to test
> how those permissions work with the application and the data files for it.
> To me what it seems to indicate for example is if you have a text file the
> append data would allow you to add more text to the already existing text
> while write data would allow you to edit the whole document. However in
> real use it may not be that simple. Word for instance deletes the old file
> and writes the new file from the temporary file you are working on when
> you edit a document which also means the user needs delete permissions for
> the document he is editing.
>
> Steve
>
>
>> what the difference, with respect to files, between these two special
>> permissions:
>>
>> create files / write data
>> create folders / append data
>>
>> the 2nd part of each of those refer to files (write and append) and here
>> are descriptions I've read:
>>
>> 'write data': allows or denies user to modify or overwrite existing data
>> in a file
>> 'append data': allows or denies the user the right to add data to the end
>> of files. This does not include making changes to any existing data
>> within a file.
>>
>> taking a simple text file for example:
>> 1) 'write data': if file is 500KB does this mean you could modify or
>> overwrite data in it as long as the file remains 500KB or smaller? In
>> other words once your 'modifications' grow the file to over 500KB the end
>> of the file changes and it becomes an 'append', which means you need the
>> 'append data' permission as well????
>>
>> 2) maybe my visualization of actually opening up the file in notepad.exe
>> and editing is not a good way to go? Maybe these permissions apply at a
>> lower level? to clarify what I mean, lets say the functions the user
>> performs via notepad.exe gui are the top layer, the layer I'm visualizing
>> when trying to make sense of these 2 permissions. The layer below this
>> being notepad.exe's actual code (outside the control of the user/gui) and
>> *how* it opens the file... for example, if I remember correctly from some
>> older programming experience, when actually coding a program that opens a
>> file you specify the 'mode' you want to open it in.. like read only,
>> append mode, etc... the mode would dictate what you could do with the
>> file. Is possibly that open 'mode' that these permissions are refering
>> to? I'm probably reading way to far into this.. plus unless you have done
>> some programming like this it won't make any sense to you.
>>
>> any input on this would be appreciated. thanks.
>>
>
>



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