NSA wiretap, Friday night - Page 2

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Re: Cyberterrorism [was: Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night]

Barton L. Phillips wrote:

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Thanks for writing so kindly and supportively.  Please read my other

I am going to take a short break.  Everything you wrote is intelligent and
correct, and I agree with it.  I would prefer to literally support and
re-enforce each and all of the perspectives that you have advanced.  They
are all good perspectives. But it all deserves a response that I cannot
write now. Please excuse and forgive.

If I can come back in a reasonable time, I will be very pleased and proud
to try to answer properly.  Your good thoughts and considerations deserve
that.  I wanted to convey my appreciation.

Thanks again.

Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

So, what can we do to keep our information out of the hands of anyone,
including the gov't, that we don't trust with that knowledge?  Now that
we know that they're going to spy on us, or at least someone is going to
spy on us.

PLEASE post a SUMMARY of the answer(s) to your question(s)!
Show Windows & Gates to the exit door.
Unless otherwise noted, the statements herein reflect my personal
opinions and not those of any organization with which I may be affiliated.

Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

Kevin the Drummer wrote:

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Top suggestion, encrypt everything.  Get your e-mail correspondents on
board.  Know the difference between strong encryption and weak.  Know the
difference between Diffie-Hellman and privately exchanged keys.
Encryption cannot keep the "Big Snoopers" like NSA out, but it will keep
all (*all*) the little bad guys out.  And if everyone uses strong
encryption for everything, they'll be running a hell of a big electric
bill down there in Baltimore just to get all our laundry lists.

Yes, of course, this is a valid question.  First, not all communications
deserve to be undiscovered. Skinners deserve to be discovered and they
will be, via internet communications or otherwise.  I wish each and every
one of them the undying torment they have inflicted on their innocent
victims.  And, smart as I could or might be, I will assist in every single
way possible in their capture, prosecution and punishment.  May they burn
in everlasting torment for the pain they have inflicted on innocent
children. They should take no assurance in any security suggestions here.
I will get every last one of them if I can, until my last dying breath.
Promise, promise, promise.

Then, thereafter in their damage come the terrorists.  They killed ~3000
very valued and sorely missed Americans and caused Billions of dollars of
damage in 2001.  That is about the same toll as GWBUSH's war in Iraq, just
in American lives and treasure.  Probably, if native Iraqi and Afganistani
lives are completely worthless, ... well ... we can all just forget about
the death toll there.  Unfortunately I cannot just forget that.  Any of
it.  This is shameful in extreme.

But to get back to the question and its answer:


Subject:                    Re: how to secure my computer

Subject:                    Re: how to secure my computer

Unfortunately, I do not see any realistic expectation of information
privacy or security in the US part of the internet anytime in the
foreseeable future.  We might get some court victories.  We might get some
Congressional support (yea, right.)  The infrastructure that has been
built at this great expense will not easily or quickly disappear.  Start
sending your notes by packet radio.  It's not mainstream.  NSA won't be
able to process it.  Probably after this note, they'll spend another
couple billions to monitor packet radio.  Minor.  It's only taxpayer
money.  Or deficit money.  Whatever.  Deficits don't matter.  (All NOT!)

All good wishes Kevin.  People want to read, let them look.  It's all
written, long ago.

And I'll just tack this on.  I'm not a political campaigner and this is
not a political group.  Get rid of this Republican stranglehold that has
paralyzed our government and has brought us to the very, very brink of
disaster.  Vote Democrat.  No they are not any better, but they are
different, and not in the stranglehold.  (Can you even imagine three
Democrats with disheveled hair agreeing on anything at all???) Vote
Democrat and cross your fingers. ;/ What else can we do (?).  You tell me.
Please.  And thanks.

Best wishes.

Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

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Move to a backwards country that has a lack of technology.

Realize that in the US, this generations introduction to The Database most
likely started with establishing your SSN. From there its all downhill.
Since I am not of this generation, I dont have firsthand info on how one
initially gets added to The System, but I can imagine thats a good start.

I bought cigarettes for a pal of mine once at a 7/11. The cashier asked
for my drivers license, I presumed to check my age.
Ok, cool. I hand it over.
He swipes it through the card reader, and now, someplace, I am surely
labelled as a smoker. Further consolidation of databases occurs as info
is brokered from one firm to another... and you should be able to draw
your own conclusion with this.

Whatever, feel free to email me your credit card info or SSN info, or any
other private information if you happen to trust me more than any
government -- my point being, why trust -any- entity with your personal
information, or any entities ability to snoop on you.

I rather give more attention to the crafty inspired 'net criminals, dumpster
diving tweakers in my alley, or anyone who can strangle a penny from a
million 'live' positives that a sale of a database can provide. Thats a lot
more immediate to me.

Regardless of who or what is spying on you, as some will obsess upon ad
nauseum here, I will finally bring this thread to some semblance of

If using technology, encrypt.
If your technology does not support it, dont use it.


Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

Jay C. James wrote:

[Note: quotes out of original order but hopefully not out of context.]

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Good advice.  I think I said it before, but better said.  And good
copycat, though.  And good strategy:  Copy someone else's good advice and
claim it as your own, to support some meaningless claptrap that you write
in between.  And the beauty is that you don't even need to explain it
yourself, or describe it in any useful context to the reader.  It is
stolen (even if valid), so if anyone questions it you can blame the
previous writer.  It is a clever Usenet ploy, even if it is an ignorant
coward's strategy.  Hey, it works !!  Good Job, jcj !  (Not really)

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WoW !  This is a clever move -- : Include the previous poster's sig in
your quoted message.  We don't see that very often here.  How could that
happen ?  Let me look.  Oh, I see, here

X-Newsreader:       Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180

Oh my !  I hope y'all don't think that I'm that dreaded "anal" thing for
checking that.  It's just that most "modern" newsreaders automatically
clip that sig from the quoted text.  And if not, then the writer will. But
that's all OK with me, - I mean, - we're all just humans who might be
wrong about something, - and reasonable people can agree to disagree, and
to err is human, - and it's no big deal or anything like that.  And now,
don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with posting to a Linux NG by
using an abominable microsloth newsreader.  It's just "like" highly
unusual, sloppy, ignorant, microsloth-ish.

Nothing like that.  No problem.  No offense intended.

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_That_ is NOT good advice.  I really think that (even?) you probably knew
that when you wrote it.  It certainly is not going to work for 300,000,000
Americans. Please be respectful of our intelligence.  If you meant and
intended to say "no way", then say "no way".  There is no need for sarcasm
or rudeness or insincere, unhelpful advice.  I personally don't think
there is no way.  I fully intended (and still do intend) to re-post
helpful suggestions as my time allows.  Unfortunately it takes more time
to be helpful and constructive that it does to be sarcastic and
destructive.  Are we in a race?  I will finish my messages in the time
they require.  

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Excuse please, but which generation are you "not of".  Your superior
speech is just so hard to follow.  (Oops, I think that might have been
sarcasm, so sorry.)  Please write in intelligible language.  Thank you.
In and all, that all would probably be admirably "on-topic", if we could
yet decipher what your intended topic actually was.  I'm still cogitatin'
on that, - give me some time.

[ - snip some unintelligible stuff - ]

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Good Point, jcj !  Another admirable slam-dunk of indefatigable logic,
even if your language skills are entirely inadequate, even if it does not
take issue with anything that has been proposed here, even if it is a
total non-sequitur.  And can you give us all any hints about how we could
avoid doing this (the original question) in view of the revelations about
the illegal, unconstitutional NSA-ATT wiretap case?  Please and thank you
in advance.

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Ahh, a _Republican_ !  Now we are seeing some daylight.  

(responder excuses himself momentarily while he dishevels his hair)

The "little spys" don't really trouble me very much.  I can stop them.
The "big spys", with unlimited electric power supplies and many and
multiple supercomputers and paid for with my (unlimited?) federal money
and shielded by secret Executive Orders, with secret "Warrants", or
without, and with Executive Orders to violate and completely disregard all
laws, Constitutional caveats, and/or International Treaties, -- they are
the ones of concern.  They are the honest, honorable, hard-working people
who have been made into the devil spawn of this Presidential
Administration that concern me.

I beg to guess that if my nation and country and way of life is threatened
by such, that I should be afforded the small residual privilege of not
being accused of "obsess"-ing, or at least not needlessly or unfairly
"obsess"-ing.  If you, jcj, think it is "ad-nauseum", I think it is
10e1000 times ad-nauseum.  Come a bit closer and I might puke on you.



You are finally bringing this thread "to some semblance of on-topicness",
because of why, exactly?

You did not add a single new element of information or advice that was not
plagiarized from previous messages in this very thread, among those you
accused of being off-topic.

You did not add a single element of relevant security information.

You don't use Linux, or reference anything related to Linux.  

Ahh, I see it all now:  You used a COMPUTER !!  :)  :0)  :^)


Yes, you got it right.  You have a COMPUTER !!  So good for you.  Very
good for you.  So happy for you.  Enjoy your COMPUTER.  Please do write
again anytime your brain happens to come back to life.

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As responded at top.

Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

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To 'responder' --

Apologies for responding to my own post, but viewing this newsgroup
in another newsreader (trying out "pan" if you are interested -- updated
today via freshmeat.net) I noticed a response claiming that a quote or
idea was stolen. Since the poster has been plonked by me for some time
via the mutually agreed crappy Outlook newsreader, theres no possible
way I could have nicked the idea. Regardless, its not an original idea

Its merely common sense. Just encrypt whenever you can, mmmkay?

Dude, please put me on -your- ignore list so we can both sleep better at
night. Me for the safety of my family, and you so you can concentrate
your efforts on someone else more deserving, and not someone who
has a pedigree in this industry likely 5 or 6 times that of yours.
Yes, that includes Linux. That includes the BSD's, most of the commercial
Unixes and guaranteeing 1 or 2 you have never heard of as well.
This also includes source code contribution to open source projects,
alongside material and financial support too, and efforts on a handful of
closed technical mailing lists you have no access to.

I mean, for someone so adamantly against this grand Microsoft juggernaut,
you should have ignored me with flair when you first saw the header info.
What kind of elitist are you, anyway?!  Why, in the old days not only did
we ignore anyone who posted anything from a Windows box, but we
blacklisted the entire Class C, I tell you! :P What the heck has happened to
this generation, anyway?

jcj -
not a republican, democrat, moderate or anything political, period, so if
you are going to refer to me in the future, please do not attempt categorize
me politically. You dont have access to my voting records or personal
feelings on anything even remotely political.

Seriously, I apologize if you think I nicked your idea after reading it
Thats an impossibility, you were plonked until today when I fired up the
new version of pan.

Look, can we just agree to disagree and ignore the other into hopeful
obscurity? :)

Feel free to have the last word in case you need to clarify something,
correct me, agree to disagree or whatever.

*big hug*

Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

imhotep wrote:
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Yes, with the additional relevant information above I see the
connection, however, the previous post left me a little confused.

I agree that the US administration is out of control, and changing my
country in ways that make me sick and afraid. I am glad that I am not
the only one disturbed.

Barton L. Phillips
Applied Technology Resources, Inc.
Tel: (818)652-9850
Web: http://www.applitec.com

Re: NSA wiretap, Friday night

New news of legal action in this issue:

Rights group asks judge to stop wiretap program

By Christine Kearney Tue Sep 5, 8:11 PM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters)



(this is not yet on the ccr-ny site)

The original link in this thread was,

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