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letting a search engine 'see' image text?

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letting a search engine 'see' image text? Pete 10-10-2007
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Posted by Pete on October 11, 2007, 4:27 pm
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Well, responding to myself... [after doing my own googling!]

>>
>>AIUI, search engines tend to not index alt text at all, though some may
>>if the image is a link.
>>
>Ehh. Not too useful then.
But Google itself seems to recommend using the alt attribute to identify
image content, as does a tutorial or two, so I guess that *is* the thing
to do.
>
>What about '<meta name="keywords" content=...>', that I seem to remember
>was once recommended for this sort of thing? I also remember hearing
>that engines tend to ignore this because of misuse...
And I was right about that...(as per many web articles) It may still be
attended to at a very low priority level, but only as a last resort.

                                        -- Pete --


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Posted by Sander Tekelenburg on October 13, 2007, 6:52 am
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neverland@jwgibbs.cchem.berkeley.edu (Pete) wrote:

> [...] I haven't found a (text or otherwise) browser that
> sees longdesc at all

iCab, Gecko (Mozilla, Firefox, Netscape, etc.) and Jaws (and presumably
other screen readers, like Window-Eyes) provide access to @longdesc.

iCab does so directly through the contextual menu's Image->Description
(which opens the @longdesc URL in a new window). In Gecko-based browsers
you need to, through the contextual menu, open the image's "Properties"
window, which lists the @longdesc URL as a "Description". In the current
Firefox the URL is just text, but I'm told that in Netscape 6 and 7 it
is a (clickable) hyperlink.

--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>

Posted by Pete on October 15, 2007, 4:08 pm
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> neverland@jwgibbs.cchem.berkeley.edu (Pete) wrote:
>
>> [...] I haven't found a (text or otherwise) browser that
>> sees longdesc at all
>
>iCab, Gecko (Mozilla, Firefox, Netscape, etc.) and Jaws (and presumably
>other screen readers, like Window-Eyes) provide access to @longdesc.
>
>iCab does so directly through the contextual menu's Image->Description
>(which opens the @longdesc URL in a new window).
That's not one I'm familiar with, but it soulds as if it does the 'right'
thing...
> In Gecko-based browsers
>you need to, through the contextual menu, open the image's "Properties"
>window, which lists the @longdesc URL as a "Description". In the current
>Firefox the URL is just text,
Mnyehh. No wonder I didn't notice it then! (:-/) And I don't think
simply showing the URL as text is what the originators of the attribute
were thinking of! Not what I'd call 'access' anyway.
> but I'm told that in Netscape 6 and 7 it
>is a (clickable) hyperlink.
...That's what I assume they *were* thinking of...

                                        -- Pete --


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Posted by David E. Ross on October 10, 2007, 5:47 pm
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On 10/10/2007 12:03 PM, Pete wrote:
> There's probably a standard answer for this, but it's never cropped up
> for me before.
>
> I have a (png) image that includes some text (a labelled group photo
> of a conference), and it'd be useful if a search engine can find those
> embedded names too -- without redundantly placing them in visible HTML
> text. What's a good way to do this?
>
> Some of the text can go in the 'alt' tag of the image, which I suppose
> is checked by a search, but that could be a bit long. Suppose I could
> use white-on-white like the spammers do... (:-/) I expect there's a
> recognized way, though.
>                                         -- Pete --
>
>

Imagine a blind person using an audio browser. He can't see your image,
but his browser "reads" the rest of the page aloud to him. The audio
browser also reads the text from ALT attributes. The ALT attribute for
your image should thus contain enough text to at least inform a blind
user what the image was about. If that cannot be done without quoting
the text in the image, then you should indeed quote the text in the ALT
attribute.

This is one reason why images should NOT be used to convey text.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Natural foods can be harmful: Look at all the
people who die of natural causes.

Posted by Pete on October 10, 2007, 8:34 pm
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>On 10/10/2007 12:03 PM, Pete wrote:
>> There's probably a standard answer for this, but it's never cropped up
>> for me before.
>>
>> I have a (png) image that includes some text (a labelled group photo
>> of a conference), and it'd be useful if a search engine can find those
>> embedded names too -- without redundantly placing them in visible HTML
>> text. What's a good way to do this?
>>
>
>Imagine a blind person using an audio browser. He can't see your image,
>but his browser "reads" the rest of the page aloud to him. The audio
>browser also reads the text from ALT attributes. The ALT attribute for
>your image should thus contain enough text to at least inform a blind
>user what the image was about. If that cannot be done without quoting
>the text in the image, then you should indeed quote the text in the ALT
>attribute.
Yes -- as long as as search engine does the same... (I presume so, but that
was my original question.) This particular image would probably not be much
use to a blind user, as it simply associates names with faces.
>
>This is one reason why images should NOT be used to convey text.
Totally agreed, normally. In this case though a) the image was sent to
me annotated, and b) the text has to be closely placed to match the
people -- something I wouldn't trust a browser to do.

Thanks,
                                        -- Pete --

>
>--
>David E. Ross
><http://www.rossde.com/>
>
>Natural foods can be harmful: Look at all the
>people who die of natural causes.


--
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The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)

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