Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

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I have just reformatted and installed WinXP on my brand new T41. In the
process I have maked several GHOST-images of the C-drive and placed
them on another partition (E-drive).

Then I read this at IBM:

Now I am afraid of that all my images are useless, because i have not
used the -ib syntax.

However I tryed today to make a image of the C-drive with the syntax
-ib. But then GHOST tells me, that -ib and -id can not be used with
imaging partitions. Will thes mean that the images I already have maked
are OK? I don't really dare to restore one of the images, if I end up
with a unbootable laptop. But on the other hand, the images are
useless, if it's not working...

Will my C-drive images work or not?

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

I guess your way is one way of storeing images, but I have always used
GHOST and wrote the images to External media devices such as external
HD, Burners, etc.   If you lost your entire OS for some reason how could
you even get back to the partition where you originally put the image????
External avenue is the answer and the Ghost V9  (latest version)
does a nice job with Winxp/Pro and the NTFS type system it involves.
Again I back up the image to a MAXTOR one touch external drive via
a 4 port powered usb hub

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Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

your images need to be on a different hard drive not on a partition on the
same hard drive.  Think about it...why would you need to restore an image?
Usually becaue there is a problem with the disk or the OS.  If that were the
case how woud you access the partition?


PS I have not yet been able to image my notebook onto a usb external hdd
even if the usb drivers are added as user files.  Do you hace any experience
whith that scenario?


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Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

You really need to place your image on an eternal drive.  It was said before
but important enough to say again.

IBM support suggested Ghost and I got a copy.  I am not displeased with IBM
rescue and recovery, and have not changed to Ghost yet.

I do urge you to get a second hd, wipe it clean and install the blank drive
in your T41.  Boot from the cd and do a restore.  If it works for you, set
an automatic back up at least weekly (to an external drive) and go on with
life.  Anything less than this kind of a test is a waste of time.  BTW, I
have two Maxtor One Touch drives on a firewire, and a Western digital USB I
carry that is usb powered.  These are all available from Costco, or you can
pick your favorite store.

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

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Drop Ghost and get a copy of Acronis True Image.  I use it on all my
computers.  One is a notebook backing up to a USB external drive.  The
other notebook backs up to the tower case to the #3 hard drive.  The
#1 drive in the tower also backs up to that drive.  All this happens
late a night while I am getting some zzzz's.
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Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
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Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

You don't really answer my question, I think...

Why I am backing up on the internal HD (on another partition offcourse)
is because I maybee want to go back to a previous state some day. And
ofcurse I transfer the GHOST-images to another PC for long time

My only real concern is:

"Then I read this at IBM:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=leno ...

Now I am afraid of that all my images are useless, because i have not
used the -ib syntax.

However I tryed today to make a image of the C-drive with the syntax
-ib. But then GHOST tells me, that -ib and -id can not be used with
imaging partitions. Will thes mean that the images I already have maked

are OK? I don't really dare to restore one of the images, if I end up
with a unbootable laptop. But on the other hand, the images are
useless, if it's not working... "

I can put the question in another way: If I have taken a GHOST-image
(with standard settings) of the C-drive in a T41, will this image be
bootable after restoring it? Some claims, that they can't boot after
restoring GHOST-images... :-(

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

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I dont know what the -ib thing is all about with Ghost.  Have been useing
Ghost for 8 years all  the way back to the old Ghost5.1 before it
became a package bought out by commercial vendors and have never
seen the -ib thingy your talking about.   The main point is yes
if your C: drive is clean the image will be clean too and it will
restore by booting from the Ghost disk in your CDR.   You should
run chkdsk /f from the "run" cmd and also defrag or other tools
before you create the image.   A Ghost image is as good as the
original contents on your HD.

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

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I agree with your approach, Tychsen.  I have been imaging/restoring for over
10 years, and while the others are correct that storing an image on the same
disk does not protect you in case of *hardware* failure, I've found that
over 95% of my restores have been due to *software* failures--bad program
installs, Windows crashes, viruses, etc.  In those cases, restoring from an
image stored on another partition works just fine.  In the case of laptops
where only one disk is available, storing images on a separate partition is
a legitimate option.

You don't say which Ghost version you are using, but I know for certain that
Ghost 2003 will work fine.  I have restored both Ghost 2003 and DriveImage
2002 images on IBM R40s and T41s successfully.  (I don't use Ghost 9--nor
any imager that works from within the partition I'm trying to image--so
can't say what idiosyncracies it might have.)  It should go without saying,
but you must be imaging a partition, and not the whole disk.  When used from
DOS and imaging/restoring a partition, Ghost 2003 does not touch the MBR
(other than adjusting the partition table, if necessary), so whatever else
IBM may have in those first 4 sectors remains untouched and should still be
there after the restore.

Although they don't make it clear, I believe the IBM reference you provided
is really referring to disk-to-disk copying.  In that case, those special
first 4 sectors would not already be on the target disk.  BTW, I see the IBM
note says this does not affect systems that use the PARTIES partition.  My
T41s used PARTIES ... do you have one that uses the WinPE R&R?

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

Thank you dg1261!

That was all I needet to hear. I am using Norton Ghost 2003 :-)

You have to explain "PARTIES" for me... I know there is a hidden
partition left on the disk (about 2 -3 GB) - I have unhidden this, so
Windows can see it in Drive Manager.. but it dosn't bother me, I don't
need the space right now... However I can't see how this should affect
anything recarding to the Ghost Image...

BTW: We are using Ghost exactly the same way... I'm laughing my ass of,
when my surroundings are spending 1, 2 maybe 3 hours on getting rid of
a virus, a Windows error or something... it's so easy: USE the ghost
you made last monday! He he... (remember to store documents and
settings on another drive than C)...

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

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PARTIES is an acronym for "Protected Area Runtime Interface Extension
Services".  Basically, it's a special way of hiding a block of disk space at
the end of the disk so that normal disk management utilities won't even know
it's there (they think the entire disk is smaller than it really is).

IBM stores its recovery image in that space.  When you launch the process to
restore the original IBM system, the bios unhides the space, boots DOS
(don't recall which version offhand--probably PC-DOS), and runs the
DOS-based system recovery utility.

I haven't studied IBM's latest system recovery scheme, but it sounds like it
boots Microsoft's WinPE ("preinstallation environment") instead of DOS.  The
IBM reference you linked mentions "4 sectors", and I note the PE boot record
on a Windows XP CD is 4 sectors large (in contrast to normal boot records,
which are 1 sector).  So I suspect the 4 sectors mentioned in the IBM
article are because of this.  If you lose those four sectors, your Ghost
image should still work but the latest IBM Rescue & Recovery scheme likely
won't.  IOW, I suspect it has no bearing on Ghost or Windows, but it's an
issue with IBM's recovery program.

However, if your T41 uses the older PARTIES recovery scheme, it didn't use 4
sectors for a boot record anyway, so the whole issue would be moot.  As to
how to tell whether your laptop uses the PARTIES scheme or the WinPE scheme,
perhaps the easiest way might be to boot the recovery program (but don't go
through the recovery phase) and see whether it's booting DOS or WinPE.

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

Tychsen wrote:

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Instead of chasing "ghosts" :), I personally prefer to save partitions
with Partition Magic. Very similar approaches but right or wrong, I
believe copied partitions are easier to work with, especially when one
wants to just retrieve a given file. I used this approach for years
without a  problem ... until I bought a Thinkpad. For a reason no one
has been able to explain to me, Thinkpads have a specific way to address
the drives which causes Partition Magic to think a secondary drive is
defective when it is not, and True Image / Disk Director from Acronis to
behave in a way Acronis Tech Support still has no explanation for.

John Doue

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

In that matter, the answer must be for you to use Ghost.... It works

And if you want to access a file within the image, just install the
image-explorer on the Ghost CD... :-)

I have only good things to say about Ghost... but of course a lot of
other products works just as well...

Re: Will GHOST work on ThinkPad T41?

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Here is my experience with using Ghost (both pre-Norton and
post-Norton versions) with ThinkPads.  If you have the source drive in
your notebook,  and have the destination also connected to your
notebook,  and have the destination drive in the notebook when you
restore,  the images are generally good.  If you pull the drive out of
the ThinkPad to do any part of the imaging,  the image is usually bad
(unless you use the "-ib" command line option of Ghost).

I have worked with several ThinkPad models over the last 3-4 years and
this has always been the case for me.  Based on this,  I would say
that your image is most likely a "good image".  I would suggest that
you "test" your image before you "bet the farm" on it though.  I
always make it a point to do this whenever I move to a new imaging
scheme.  Using this method has saved my butt a few times because I
found that I was skipping an important step,  or flat out doing
something wrong.  I don't want to wait until I need to do a restore
before I know if my restore images are any good or not.

Now,  for a personal comment on Ghost.  I highly recommend that you
stay with 2003 or the corporate v8 releases for now.  I tried v9 and
found it quite painful to use.  It needed more than 3 hours to image
my system,  and it won't allow you to restore from a DOS boot floppy,
so recovery is a bit more tedious.  A while back I tried using Acronis
True Image and found that v6 of that software was at about the same
place Ghost v9 is today.  When I compared Ghost v9 to True Image v8,
the Acronis package could make a backup of my system drive in about
1/2 to 1/3 the time (Ghost took about 3 hours and True Image took
about 1.25 hours),  and I could use the True Image emergency recovery
media to both make a backup or to restore a backup.  According to
Ghost v9,  your system will randomly reboot every day if you use the
recovery boot from your CD and you don't install/activate Ghost v9 on
your drive after restoring an image.

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