ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

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I am looking at getting a new laptop but want something that has a
decent graphics card and good RAM and HDD.  I have decided to go for
either a Toshiba Qosmio F10 - 124 or a Toshiba P30-133.  The Qosmio has
a FXGo 5700 card and a very good quality TFT screen but the P30-133 has
a Mobility Radeon 9700 but a larger poorer quality screen brightness
wise.  The other factor I was thinking of was the processor.  The
Qosmio has a 1.6Ghz 2Mb Cache while the P30-133 has a P4 3.33Ghz 1MB
Cache.  I want something that will last a long while and was thinking
about choosing the P30-133.  The only snag I have with it is that it
does not look great compared to the Qosmio.  Also the Qosmio offers
dual HDD support. Anyone know whether the graphics card in the Qosmio
can be upgraded in the future??

If anyone could offer some advice or knows of a better laptop with a
great graphics card and good screen please let me know. Any advice is

Re: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

Dex wrote:
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I think you are mistaken about a P4 having greater longevity than a P-M.
Given that the P4s tend to run hotter than the P-M, that alone says that
the P-M has potentially longer life. (This even given the huge heat pipe
coolers on the current crop of 3+Ghz P4 laptops that can heat the entire
room). The CPU cache is incidental to your choice, IMO.  It will largely
go unused in normal operation and/or you'll never notice the difference
in cache.  More important is the VRAM.  Get the largest VRAM you can
afford.  Word on the street is that Nvidia is eating ATI's lunch, but my
ATI cards work just fine.  No, there is little chance that any laptop
video card (chip, really) can be upgraded in the future, even if you
could find the parts and even if the GPU is socketed (which is very
unlikely).  Neither vendor sells laptop GPUs outside the OEM market. Get
the fastest, largest HD you can afford or plan to upgrade after
purchase.  The Hitachi 7K60 is a very good 7200 rpm drive, but Fujitsu
has another.  A 4200 rpm drive will defeat the performance of both

Otherwise, there have been reports of reliability problems with the
Qosmio in its early release (Google Groups).  Frankly, Toshiba has
slipped, again IMO, in its overall quality.  I think you can do just as
well, possibly less expensively, with other vendors.

If you have not had experience with widescreen LCDs, you should be aware
of the differences in a 16:9 widescreen compared to a standard 4:3
screen, particularly in gaming and photo/video work.  The height of the
screen in both cases governs the rendition of a 4:3 game or photo
display.  A 15 inch widescreen will display a 4:3 frame equivalently to
a 12 inch standard display.


Re: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

Quaoar wrote:
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I *think* he was referring to lifetime of usage, ie, that the P4 would
remain in the target performance band as chips and the software for them

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Your information is out of date.   This was the case up until a year or
so ago, but there are several laptops with upgradeable video being
advertised and sold today.

 > The Hitachi 7K60 is a very good 7200 rpm drive,

Second that.  I have one, and it is quiet, cool, and fast.

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Toshiba is the low-cost vendor among major name brands, especially if
you are a smart shopper.  I got my P25 in August 2003 for 1400 bucks at
Circuit City (after rebates).  It's amazing how much cheaper they are
than Dell, for example.  Toshiba no longer manufactures their own brand
in their own factories, but who does?  Buy the 3-year support which is
*very* reasonable from Toshiba, and *only* take your system to
Authorized Premier Toshiba repair centers, even if you have to drive or
ship it there.

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I get your point, but your triginometry is off a bit - the adjustment is
not as severe as you say.  When showing a 4:3 *source*, a 15" 16:9 is
equivalent to a 12.3" 4:3.

Widescreens however are generally 15.4" or 17" diagonal.  When showing a
4:3 *source*, a 15.4" widescreen is equivalent to a 12.6" 4:3 screen.

HOWEVER, the widescreen will still have free space on each side of the
image.  That is usable work space.

For photo/video editing, you get more work space for toolbars, so the
wide form factor works really, really well, and gives you much more
*usable* space than the 4:3 form factor.

And on the 4:3, in real life, you would have to shrink the image in
order to see menubars and toolbars, so the advantage in the end goes to
the widescreen.

Of course, I have a 17" widescreen, which displays the same size 4:3
source material as a 13.9" 4:3 screen, plus as I said, it still would
have free space around the image to place tools and other windows.

I don't do pc gaming, so I don't know if any use a widescreen
movie-style format, but even in games I imagine you have toolbars or
other control interfaces that can be placed on the side of the main
graphic display.

Re: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

Richard Grossman wrote:
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Thanks for your comments.  I wholeheartedly disagree, though, with your
comments on the replacement for a GPU.  Yes, some boards have video
daughter cards or socketed GPUs, but I challenge you to supply examples
wherein the GPU can be upgraded even in these systems.


Re: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

Quaoar wrote:
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The Sager NP9860 was designed with a modular video unit that allows exchange
of the unit's video card. At the time of design, Sager hoped that the unit
would be exchangeable by the user, but recognized that as technology moved
forward, some aspects of the design might require manufacturer modification
in order for a new module to work properly. With cards that share the same
thermal design as the original, we encourage end users to do their own
exchanges. However, some cards, such as the new NVIDIAŽ GeForceT Go 6800
w/GDDR3 and ATi MOBILITYT RADEONŽ X800, have a different thermal design that
requires modification of the unit by Sager in order to run optimally. New
technology having this kind of impact will require Sager to modify the unit
in order for the upgrade to run properly.

For those users wishing to purchase the NVIDIAŽ GeForceT Go 6800 w/GDDR3 or
ATi MOBILITYT RADEONŽ X800, Sager will perform the necessary modifications
to their unit and install the card. Shipping and handling charges to Sager
will be the responsibility of the customer. Three-day shipping back to the
customer will be paid for by Sager.

Please Contact Sager Techsupport department for detailed information.

Units with Serial Numbers starting with 84xxxxxxxxxx will be requiring
modification by Sager in order for the cards to work properly.

Units with Serial Numbers starting with 85xxxxxxxxxx can be upgraded by the

Pricing for S/N: 84xxxxxxxxxx:
nVIDIAŽ GeForceT Go 6800 w/GDDR3 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $465.00.
ATi MOBILITYT RADEONŽ X800 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $445.00.

Pricing for S/N: 85xxxxxxxxxx:
nVIDIAŽ GeForceT Go 6800 w/GDDR3 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $395.00.
ATi MOBILITYT RADEONŽ X800 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $375.00.

Please contact Sager directly if you are intersted a video card upgrade or

End C&P


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Re: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

Quaoar wrote:

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Although someone else has posted a response to your challenge, in actual
practice I do agree with you, actually, in that I wouldn't *count* on
being able to upgrade video even if so advertised.

Re: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

I had a laptop with a Radeon 9700 mobility and it was great. It had a
p4 2.8ghz proc and 512mb ram and ran hl2, halo doom and other games
awesome but it just got stolen. I bought it in july of last year from and it only cost me 1700 US.
The brand of computer is Sager
They use the same or similar parts as alienware and vodoo and I didnt
have any trouble with it. No dead pixels in the LCD, never overheated,
bumped it around alot since i took it everwhere. I cant really compare
it to the nvidia card you mentioned but I have to say the radeon was

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