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Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

Here you go Barry! I found this:

Handbook of Display Technology
By Joseph A. Castellano

This book cost about $150. And according to Castellano, we are both
partially right and we are both partially wrong.

I was right about pixels and wrong about a pixel is a triad (true only
in LCD).

You were right about pixels are not a triad (in regards to CRT), but
wrong about CRTs of having pixels too.

Castellano explains that found in lots of textbooks and manufacture's
tech documents that a triad and a pixel are the same thing even when
talking about CRTs is simply wrong! As Castellano explains this isn't so
with CRTs. As the triads used in CRTs are far smaller than those used in
LCDs (I didn't know this, did you?).

Thus say you have a CRT that has .22mm pitch. This is one pixel
Castellano explains (nothing new for me here). Although this one pixel
can contain many triads (no surprise to you, eh?). So the resolution
isn't measured by the number of triads (only true of LCD so far), but by
the number of pixels (a pixel equals resolution, no surprise to me).

And I asked the question why doesn't CRTs have a native resolution like
LCDs has since they both have pixels? Which nobody has yet answered. And
now I believe I have the answer. That is because in order for a CRT to
have a native resolution, a pixel must equal one triad before this can
happen. And a pixel per triad is actually a big disadvantage.

So LCDs are far behind CRT technology when it comes to pixels. As CRTs
uses far more triads per pixel than LCDs. And the only way for LCDs to
catch up is to greatly make the triads much smaller like the ones used
in CRTs. In short, the triads are just too dang big in LCDs.

Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3

Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

BillW50 wrote:
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Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

I think you are misinterpreting what you are reading.

CRT's have "pixels" but they are "soft"; they are not physical entities
as they are on an LCD panel.  The CRTs pixels are "painted" by the
electron beam (beams, ok?) as it (they) scan(s) across the phosphors, by
turning the beam on and off.

And because they are "soft", you can run the CRT at different
resolutions without any issues, until the number of pixels that you are
trying to create gets too small relative to both size of the phosphor
triads and, also various characteristics of the electron beam involving
it's diameter, shape and the "fuzziness" of it's edges.

[Your point about what is possible with an electron beam is accurate,
but not relevant.  The electron beams in consumer grade color CRTs are
not of the "perfect focus", "sharp edged", "perfectly round" variety.
Is it possible to make such displays?  Yes, but it's expensive, it's not
necessary for this application (consumer grade displays) and it's not done.]

A CRT (ok, a consumer grade CRT) CANNOT have 1 pixel = 1 triad because
you cannot individually address (turn on and off) the phosphor dot of a
single triad.  Again, the electron beam is not that small, it's edges
are not that sharp, it's SHAPE is not suited to behaving in that manner
(indeed, it's shape is not even constant; an electron beam that is
almost perfectly circular in the dead center of a display tube almost
always becomes significantly elliptical when it is near the edges or
corner of the tube; it's just very hard (not impossible, but not cost
justified in consumer displays) to maintain that kind of focus and
control over the beams as they are deflected across an entire CRT screen).

And no, I don't agree with your last paragraph.  There are simply
fundamental differences between color CRTs and LCD panels.  They are
different TYPES of display, and those differences are INHERIT in the
display devices (LCD panels and CRT tubes) themselves.  LCDs have
PHYSICAL pixels, CRTs have "soft" pixels which are not physical, e.g. no
manufacturing parameter or process corresponds to the resolution of the
CRT display tube.  If there was a physical pixel in a CRT Display,
indeed, you would order different tubes, and therefore different
monitors, for different resolutions (as we do for LCD displays); but you
don't, do you, for CRT displays?

There is, however, a maximum resolution that any given CRT tube can
display, which is a function of the phosphor dot triad size relative to
the size, shape and sharpness of the electron beam.  Basically, again,
you need several physical phosphor dot triads per "soft" pixel to
produce a good image, and once that ratio starts to get "small", image
quality deteriorates rapidly.

BillW50 wrote:
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Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

Somewhere on teh intarwebs Barry Watzman wrote:
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LOL, they say that the best thing about banging your head against a wall is
the feeling of relief that you get when you stop.

I know the feeling.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's
warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchet, 'Jingo'.

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Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

~misfit~ typed on Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:31:34 +1300:
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I actually didn't misinterpret anything. What Barry said is actually
what I said. And it is also nice that Barry now admits that CRT has
pixels. ;-)

Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows XP SP3

Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

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    You should see what happens when you google "flying saucer".

Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

 From Wikipedia, "Display Resolution":

"Also in analog connected picture displays such as CRT TV sets, the
horizontal scanlines are not divided into pixels ...."

"ultimately "display resolution" in CRT-type displays is affected by
different parameters such as [electron beam] spot size and focus,
astigmatic effects in the display corners [e.g. shape of the beam, which
is no longer round], the color phosphor pitch shadow mask ..."

"display resolution ... can be an ambiguous term especially as the
displayed resolution is controlled by all different factors in cathode
ray tube (CRT) and flat panel or projection displays using fixed
picture-element (pixel) arrays ..."

the wharf rat wrote:
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Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

If you want to do things the wrong way, fine.  Microsoft provided a way
to adjust the size of things.  But telling the driver that the screen
resolution is one thing when it's really another will degrade image
quality.  FACT.

BillW50 wrote:
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Re: Adjusting display on Dell 8100?

Barry Watzman typed on Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:50:48 -0500:
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Yes it will degrade the quality of the image. No argument there. And
being really nearsighted, I am one of the few who can actually see it. I
can actually see every pixel on the screen too without any devices. Same
is true of CRT displays too.

But still, there are lots of benefits of doing so. For myself, it is the
not having to resize all of the windows all of the time switching back
and forth between internal and external displays. Plus the added
performance and lower video and CPU temperatures are also a nice bonus.

Is the image very slightly not as sharp? You bet! Does it matter? Nope,
everything is larger remember? Hell this is heaven compared to my old
.52 pitch color monitors from the 80's. Where even 40x25 character
matrix was thousands of times more fuzzier than 800x600 on this 1440x900
LCD monitor. See what I mean now?

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Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2

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