Click here to get back home

intermittant stutter watching recorded and live TV

 HomeNewsGroups | Search | About
 microsoft.public.windows.mediacenter    Post an article   get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content
Subject Author Date
intermittant stutter watching recorded and live TV Luke Tractor 05-27-2008
Get Chitika Premium
Posted by Rob Hooker on May 29, 2008, 11:27 am
Please log in for more thread options
Do you know if your SATA controller is off the PCI bus, the PCIe x1 Bus, or
its own dedicated channel?

Having built a few MCE's - all for recording HD here in the US, I've found
the that bandwidth of the 'old' PCI bus + HDD combo seems really pushed when
dealing with HD - 1080i especially.

If the HD stream is 8gigs per hour (for example), then to watch Live TV
you'll need to be push this roughly data around...
8000000/60/60 = 2 MegaBYTEs a second needs to be:

1] Going from your Tuner card - into the PCI bus
2] From the PCI bus into the HDD to be written
3] Then, read back from the HDD (or its cache hopefully) back onto the PCI
bus
4] Then, from the PCI bus, into your PCIex16 (or AGP bus) for display on
your graphics card

Thats a lot of "2 Meg" blocks of data that need to cross the bus every
second.
Add a fragmented HDD that is struggling to keep up... and you'll have
stutter - I know I sure did!!

It got much worse for me when I added 2nd tuners (and then 3rd tuners) etc.


All of my problems were solved as I moved to MBs which had the SATA
controllers away from the PCI Bus - I now run 3 HD tuners - all recording at
once, and watching a 4th program, previously recorded - all silky smooth.

Rob



> Hi Curious,
>
> I initially thought along the same lines so i have tried a 8500gt and it
> didnt make a difference with the stutter, just worked better when watching
> TV
> with the guide overlay. also if it was the graphics surely it would be
> there
> 100% of the time, not from time to time. the Mother board with on board
> graphics is sold as a HD graphics mother board.
>
> There is no stutter problem with xp media centre from where i borrowed the
> 8500gt card
>
> I have also seen a PC with the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H motherboard with
> exactly the same symtoms as mine and this is supposed to do HD easily. the
> only constant is that we are both using Vista Ultimate.
>
> "Curious" wrote:
>
>> Stuttering is normally caused by a graphics card without a powerful GPU
>> or
>> without enough memory.
>> If your 1080i programs are stuttering and your 720p programs that would
>> confirm the lack of graphics card capability.
>>
>> > Hi Nigel,
>> >
>> > Yes i live in Perth Western Australia and we use PAL and reception is
>> > varied
>> > but the HD are usually 1080i or 720p.
>> >
>> > any thoughts?
>> >
>> > Luke
>> >
>> >
>> > "Nigel Barker" wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 27 May 2008 04:01:00 -0700, Luke Tractor <Luke
>> >> Tractor@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi team,
>> >> >
>> >> >Firstly my PC build...
>> >> >Motherboard - abit an-m2hd - nvidia gf7050pv ht2000 dual ddr800
>> >> >CPU - AMD 64 x 2 5000 2.6 ghz socket AM2
>> >> >Ram - Corsair twin 2 x 1gig DDR2 800
>> >> >Graphic Card - On board
>> >> >Hard drive - Samsung 500GB 7200rpm SATA ll 300HDD
>> >> >tuner card - PCI Hauppauge Nova T-500 Dual DVBT SD/HD supports Media
>> >> >Centre
>> >> >Operating system - Windows Vista Premium 32bit
>> >> >Monitor - panasonic HD 1080p
>> >> >
>> >> >I have installed all the latest drivers and vista updates and have no
>> >> >running virus scanners in the background. I have also turned off
>> >> >Vista
>> >> >Aero.
>> >> >
>> >> >I find that there is a slight stutter every couple of minutes or so
>> >> >when
>> >> >watching a HD recorded or live TV but sometimes see this on SD as
>> >> >well.
>> >> >I can
>> >> >sometimes bring it on by using the 30 sec skip. The TV ticker tape
>> >> >stutters
>> >> >about 80% of the time even if tv recording is not stuttering. At
>> >> >times
>> >> >the
>> >> >ticker tape is completely smooth. It seems worst on stations sending
>> >> >1080p
>> >> >but do see it from time to time on other channels.
>> >> >
>> >> >i find i can sometimes reduce or stop the stutter by stopping the
>> >> >recorded
>> >> >program, backing out and going to the guide or something similar and
>> >> >then
>> >> >going back to the recording.
>> >> >
>> >> >I thought that the problem was insufficiant Graphic power so tried a
>> >> >8500GT
>> >> >Graphic card, although this removed all stutter when watching tv with
>> >> >overlays, the intermittant stutter was still there.
>> >> >
>> >> >I know 2 others with similar MB setups but with different tuner cards
>> >> >who
>> >> >have the same issues as me so i dont believe it is a tuner or
>> >> >reception
>> >> >issue. I feel its to do with Vista software but cant put my finger on
>> >> >the
>> >> >solution.
>> >> >
>> >> >Stutter has been an ongoing problem since i did the build a few
>> >> >months
>> >> >ago
>> >> >and am not any closer to finding a solution so hope somebody can
>> >> >help.
>> >>
>> >> Some clue as to where in the world you might be would help. DVB-T
>> >> means
>> >> outside
>> >> North America & DVB-T HD probably means Australia but I could be
>> >> wrong.
>> >> AFAIK
>> >> there are no 1080p broadcasts anywhere in the world.
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Nigel Barker
>> >> Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
>> >> MCE MVP
>> >>
>>



Posted by Curious on May 29, 2008, 1:38 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Its not there 100% of the time since MPEG2 compression uses full frames and
change frames so the more action there is in a program the more work is
required to decode and decompress it. Also with low action the graphics
card may drop frames and you don't even notice that. Stuttering occurs when
the graphics card has dropped enough frames that it has to skip several
frames at once to catch up.
> Hi Curious,
>
> I initially thought along the same lines so i have tried a 8500gt and it
> didnt make a difference with the stutter, just worked better when watching
> TV
> with the guide overlay. also if it was the graphics surely it would be
> there
> 100% of the time, not from time to time. the Mother board with on board
> graphics is sold as a HD graphics mother board.
>
> There is no stutter problem with xp media centre from where i borrowed the
> 8500gt card
>
> I have also seen a PC with the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H motherboard with
> exactly the same symtoms as mine and this is supposed to do HD easily. the
> only constant is that we are both using Vista Ultimate.
>
> "Curious" wrote:
>
>> Stuttering is normally caused by a graphics card without a powerful GPU
>> or
>> without enough memory.
>> If your 1080i programs are stuttering and your 720p programs that would
>> confirm the lack of graphics card capability.
>>
>> > Hi Nigel,
>> >
>> > Yes i live in Perth Western Australia and we use PAL and reception is
>> > varied
>> > but the HD are usually 1080i or 720p.
>> >
>> > any thoughts?
>> >
>> > Luke
>> >
>> >
>> > "Nigel Barker" wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 27 May 2008 04:01:00 -0700, Luke Tractor <Luke
>> >> Tractor@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi team,
>> >> >
>> >> >Firstly my PC build...
>> >> >Motherboard - abit an-m2hd - nvidia gf7050pv ht2000 dual ddr800
>> >> >CPU - AMD 64 x 2 5000 2.6 ghz socket AM2
>> >> >Ram - Corsair twin 2 x 1gig DDR2 800
>> >> >Graphic Card - On board
>> >> >Hard drive - Samsung 500GB 7200rpm SATA ll 300HDD
>> >> >tuner card - PCI Hauppauge Nova T-500 Dual DVBT SD/HD supports Media
>> >> >Centre
>> >> >Operating system - Windows Vista Premium 32bit
>> >> >Monitor - panasonic HD 1080p
>> >> >
>> >> >I have installed all the latest drivers and vista updates and have no
>> >> >running virus scanners in the background. I have also turned off
>> >> >Vista
>> >> >Aero.
>> >> >
>> >> >I find that there is a slight stutter every couple of minutes or so
>> >> >when
>> >> >watching a HD recorded or live TV but sometimes see this on SD as
>> >> >well.
>> >> >I can
>> >> >sometimes bring it on by using the 30 sec skip. The TV ticker tape
>> >> >stutters
>> >> >about 80% of the time even if tv recording is not stuttering. At
>> >> >times
>> >> >the
>> >> >ticker tape is completely smooth. It seems worst on stations sending
>> >> >1080p
>> >> >but do see it from time to time on other channels.
>> >> >
>> >> >i find i can sometimes reduce or stop the stutter by stopping the
>> >> >recorded
>> >> >program, backing out and going to the guide or something similar and
>> >> >then
>> >> >going back to the recording.
>> >> >
>> >> >I thought that the problem was insufficiant Graphic power so tried a
>> >> >8500GT
>> >> >Graphic card, although this removed all stutter when watching tv with
>> >> >overlays, the intermittant stutter was still there.
>> >> >
>> >> >I know 2 others with similar MB setups but with different tuner cards
>> >> >who
>> >> >have the same issues as me so i dont believe it is a tuner or
>> >> >reception
>> >> >issue. I feel its to do with Vista software but cant put my finger on
>> >> >the
>> >> >solution.
>> >> >
>> >> >Stutter has been an ongoing problem since i did the build a few
>> >> >months
>> >> >ago
>> >> >and am not any closer to finding a solution so hope somebody can
>> >> >help.
>> >>
>> >> Some clue as to where in the world you might be would help. DVB-T
>> >> means
>> >> outside
>> >> North America & DVB-T HD probably means Australia but I could be
>> >> wrong.
>> >> AFAIK
>> >> there are no 1080p broadcasts anywhere in the world.
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Nigel Barker
>> >> Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
>> >> MCE MVP
>> >>
>>


Posted by Luke Tractor on May 30, 2008, 2:25 am
Please log in for more thread options
thanks for the thoughts,

firstly the SATA is rated at 3Gb/s so hopefully this aint the problem. good
point though~!

Vista gave the 8500Gt a rating of 5ish (still didnt fix stutter) if memory
serves me, where my onboard is 3.2 so graphics could be better in general but
should be ok.

Stutter is definitely worse when panning and ticker tape...why does the
ticker tape come good and then stutter again, where are the bottlenecks?

if the on board graphics is up to the job what else is there?

"Curious" wrote:

> Its not there 100% of the time since MPEG2 compression uses full frames and
> change frames so the more action there is in a program the more work is
> required to decode and decompress it. Also with low action the graphics
> card may drop frames and you don't even notice that. Stuttering occurs when
> the graphics card has dropped enough frames that it has to skip several
> frames at once to catch up.
> > Hi Curious,
> >
> > I initially thought along the same lines so i have tried a 8500gt and it
> > didnt make a difference with the stutter, just worked better when watching
> > TV
> > with the guide overlay. also if it was the graphics surely it would be
> > there
> > 100% of the time, not from time to time. the Mother board with on board
> > graphics is sold as a HD graphics mother board.
> >
> > There is no stutter problem with xp media centre from where i borrowed the
> > 8500gt card
> >
> > I have also seen a PC with the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H motherboard with
> > exactly the same symtoms as mine and this is supposed to do HD easily. the
> > only constant is that we are both using Vista Ultimate.
> >
> > "Curious" wrote:
> >
> >> Stuttering is normally caused by a graphics card without a powerful GPU
> >> or
> >> without enough memory.
> >> If your 1080i programs are stuttering and your 720p programs that would
> >> confirm the lack of graphics card capability.
> >>
> >> > Hi Nigel,
> >> >
> >> > Yes i live in Perth Western Australia and we use PAL and reception is
> >> > varied
> >> > but the HD are usually 1080i or 720p.
> >> >
> >> > any thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > Luke
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Nigel Barker" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 27 May 2008 04:01:00 -0700, Luke Tractor <Luke
> >> >> Tractor@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Hi team,
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Firstly my PC build...
> >> >> >Motherboard - abit an-m2hd - nvidia gf7050pv ht2000 dual ddr800
> >> >> >CPU - AMD 64 x 2 5000 2.6 ghz socket AM2
> >> >> >Ram - Corsair twin 2 x 1gig DDR2 800
> >> >> >Graphic Card - On board
> >> >> >Hard drive - Samsung 500GB 7200rpm SATA ll 300HDD
> >> >> >tuner card - PCI Hauppauge Nova T-500 Dual DVBT SD/HD supports Media
> >> >> >Centre
> >> >> >Operating system - Windows Vista Premium 32bit
> >> >> >Monitor - panasonic HD 1080p
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I have installed all the latest drivers and vista updates and have no
> >> >> >running virus scanners in the background. I have also turned off
> >> >> >Vista
> >> >> >Aero.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I find that there is a slight stutter every couple of minutes or so
> >> >> >when
> >> >> >watching a HD recorded or live TV but sometimes see this on SD as
> >> >> >well.
> >> >> >I can
> >> >> >sometimes bring it on by using the 30 sec skip. The TV ticker tape
> >> >> >stutters
> >> >> >about 80% of the time even if tv recording is not stuttering. At
> >> >> >times
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >ticker tape is completely smooth. It seems worst on stations sending
> >> >> >1080p
> >> >> >but do see it from time to time on other channels.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >i find i can sometimes reduce or stop the stutter by stopping the
> >> >> >recorded
> >> >> >program, backing out and going to the guide or something similar and
> >> >> >then
> >> >> >going back to the recording.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I thought that the problem was insufficiant Graphic power so tried a
> >> >> >8500GT
> >> >> >Graphic card, although this removed all stutter when watching tv with
> >> >> >overlays, the intermittant stutter was still there.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I know 2 others with similar MB setups but with different tuner cards
> >> >> >who
> >> >> >have the same issues as me so i dont believe it is a tuner or
> >> >> >reception
> >> >> >issue. I feel its to do with Vista software but cant put my finger on
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >solution.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Stutter has been an ongoing problem since i did the build a few
> >> >> >months
> >> >> >ago
> >> >> >and am not any closer to finding a solution so hope somebody can
> >> >> >help.
> >> >>
> >> >> Some clue as to where in the world you might be would help. DVB-T
> >> >> means
> >> >> outside
> >> >> North America & DVB-T HD probably means Australia but I could be
> >> >> wrong.
> >> >> AFAIK
> >> >> there are no 1080p broadcasts anywhere in the world.
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >>
> >> >> Nigel Barker
> >> >> Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
> >> >> MCE MVP
> >> >>
> >>
>

Posted by Nigel Barker on May 30, 2008, 5:38 am
Please log in for more thread options
On Thu, 29 May 2008 23:25:00 -0700, Luke Tractor

>Stutter is definitely worse when panning and ticker tape...why does the
>ticker tape come good and then stutter again, where are the bottlenecks?

This sounds a lot like watching a 50Hz PAL signal on a 60Hz monitor/TV.
--

Cheers

Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
MCE MVP

Posted by Luke Tractor on May 30, 2008, 6:36 am
Please log in for more thread options
thanks but heard this before, and have tried 50hz, 59hz and 60hz but no
difference. running out of options. maybe go to xp :-(

"Nigel Barker" wrote:

> On Thu, 29 May 2008 23:25:00 -0700, Luke Tractor
>
> >Stutter is definitely worse when panning and ticker tape...why does the
> >ticker tape come good and then stutter again, where are the bottlenecks?
>
> This sounds a lot like watching a 50Hz PAL signal on a 60Hz monitor/TV.
> --
>
> Cheers
>
> Nigel Barker
> Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
> MCE MVP
>

Similar ThreadsPosted
Stutter while watching recorded TV when recording starts June 13, 2006, 12:21 pm
Intermittant Sound Stutter in HD June 25, 2008, 2:36 pm
Recorded TV stutter and freezes sometimes live tv MCE 2005 March 15, 2007, 9:40 pm
no audio after burning tv recorded dvd or watching live tv December 29, 2005, 2:49 am
Not able to "forward" or "rewind" when watching live or recorded t December 24, 2006, 6:30 pm
Chugging video & garbled audio when watching live/recorded TV September 6, 2005, 11:17 pm
Recorded video stutter May 5, 2007, 4:29 pm
Video stutter in recorded shows July 15, 2008, 12:33 pm
Vista x64 Live TV stutter February 24, 2007, 11:49 am
watching tv that recorded on a 2nd mce December 18, 2006, 11:00 pm

Our other projects:

Art Dolls, Fairies and Mermaids - Sunnyfaces.net

Roy's Linux, Programming and Search Engines messages

1-Script XML SitemapXML Sitemap