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white-space: nowrap;"> <div id="jt2" style="display: block; white-space: nowrap;"> <table width="730" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="500" class='normal' bgcolor='#F3F3F3'><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_vertline.png" alt="| " /><a onmousedown="toggletreemenu1('2');"><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" id="jt2node" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_split.png" alt="|-" /></a><a href="/forums/iframe-any-good-for-anything-article12846--8.htm#12851" target="_parent"><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_leaf.png" alt="->" /></a> <a href="/forums/iframe-any-good-for-anything-article12846--8.htm#12851" target="_parent">Re: <iframe> any good for anything?</a> </td><td width="120" align="left" class="normal" bgcolor='#F3F3F3'><i>Darin McGrew</i></td><td width="110" align="right" class="normal" bgcolor='#F3F3F3' ><a href='#' title='19:37:54'>07-11-2005</a></td></tr></table></div> <div id="jt3" style="display: block; 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white-space: nowrap;"> <table width="730" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="500" class='normal' bgcolor='#F3F3F3'><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_vertline.png" alt="| " /><a onmousedown="toggletreemenu1('7')"><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" id="jt7node" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_collapse_corner.png" alt="--" /></a><a href="/forums/iframe-any-good-for-anything-article12846-1-8.htm#12874" target="_parent"><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" id="jt7folder" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_folder_open.png" alt="->" /></a> <a href="/forums/iframe-any-good-for-anything-article12846-1-8.htm#12874" target="_parent">Re: <iframe> any good for anything?</a> </td><td width="120" align="left" class="normal" bgcolor='#F3F3F3'><i>Andy Dingley</i></td><td width="110" align="right" class="normal" bgcolor='#F3F3F3' ><a href='#' title='19:34:20'>07-12-2005</a></td></tr></table></div> <div id="jt7son" style="display: block; 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white-space: nowrap;"> <div id="jt11" style="display: block; white-space: nowrap;"> <table width="730" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="500" class='normal' bgcolor='#F3F3F3'><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_space.png" alt=" " /><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_space.png" alt=" " /><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_corner.png" alt="`-" /><a href="/forums/iframe-any-good-for-anything-article12846-2-8.htm#12937" target="_parent"><img align="top" border="0" class="imgs" src="/forums/themes/standard/images/tree/tree_leaf.png" alt="->" /></a> <a href="/forums/iframe-any-good-for-anything-article12846-2-8.htm#12937" target="_parent">Re: <iframe> any good for anything?</a> </td><td width="120" align="left" class="normal" bgcolor='#F3F3F3'><i>kchayka</i></td><td width="110" align="right" class="normal" bgcolor='#F3F3F3' ><a href='#' title='16:28:57'>07-15-2005</a></td></tr></table></div> </div> </div> <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"> <!-- if ((DOM && !Opera56 && !Konqueror2) || IE4) { if (expand[1] != 1) toggletreemenu1('1'); if (expand[4] != 1) toggletreemenu1('4'); if (expand[7] != 1) toggletreemenu1('7'); if (expand[9] != 1) toggletreemenu1('9'); if (expand[10] != 1) toggletreemenu1('10'); } if (NS4) alert('Only the accessibility is provided to Netscape 4 on the JavaScript Tree Menu.\nWe *strongly* suggest you to upgrade your browser.'); // --> </script> </td> </tr> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="article_body" colspan="5"> <a href="https://chitika.com/premiumads.php?refid=1script" style="text-decoration: none;"><img src="http://scripts.chitika.net/eminimalls/logos/728x90.png" border="0"alt="Get Chitika Premium" title="Get Chitika Premium" /></a> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="5" width="100%" valign="top"> <!-- AD UNIT BLOCK --> <!-- google_ad_section_start --> <table width = "100%"> <tr><td class="body_post"><a name="12846"></a> <div style="background:#CCCCCC;">Posted by <i>Jacques</i> on July 11, 2005, 5:45 pm </div> <div style="text-align:center;" class="bold">Please log in for more thread options</div><span id="insert_left"><table><tr><td> <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"> <!-- ctxt_ad_partner = "1074311932"; ctxt_ad_section = "52176"; ctxt_ad_bg = ""; ctxt_ad_width = 336; ctxt_ad_height = 280; ctxt_ad_bc = "FFFFFF"; ctxt_ad_cc = "FFFFFF"; ctxt_ad_lc = "0000FF"; ctxt_ad_tc = "000000"; ctxt_ad_uc = "999999"; // --> </script> <script language="JavaScript" src="http://ypn-js.overture.com/partner/js/ypn.js"> </script> </td></tr></table></span> <br/> <br/>I have been writing html/xhtml for nearly as long as I can remember. I <br/>do not like frames and stopped using <frameset> a long time ago. But... <br/> <br/>I have never used <iframe> for anything--never paid any attention to <br/>browser support for the iframe element, nor to whatever arguments there <br/>are for or against it. <br/>Is there any consensus--at least here among subscribers to <br/>c.i.w.a.html--over whether usr of the <iframe> tag is or was ever a good <br/>idea? If it has been made obsolete (by css, or otherwise), was there <br/>ever something to be said in favor of this element? <br/>Thanks. <br/>- Jacques <br/> <br/></td></tr> <tr><td class="body_post"><a name="12850"></a> <div style="background:#CCCCCC;">Posted by <i>Andy Dingley</i> on July 11, 2005, 8:12 pm </div> <div style="text-align:center;" class="bold">Please log in for more thread options</div><span id="insert_left"><table><tr><td> <script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"> <!-- ctxt_ad_partner = "1074311932"; ctxt_ad_section = "52180"; ctxt_ad_bg = ""; ctxt_ad_width = 300; ctxt_ad_height = 250; ctxt_ad_bc = "FFFFFF"; ctxt_ad_cc = "FFFFFF"; ctxt_ad_lc = "0000FF"; ctxt_ad_tc = "000000"; ctxt_ad_uc = "999999"; // --> </script> <script language="JavaScript" src="http://ypn-js.overture.com/partner/js/ypn.js"> </script> </td></tr></table></span> <br/> <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>>Is there any consensus--at least here among subscribers to </i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>>c.i.w.a.html--over whether usr of the <iframe> tag is or was ever a good </i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>>idea? </i></div> <br/>It's standard HTML with good widespread support. This makes it a useful <br/>alternatives to JavaScript tasks. <br/> <br/>You can gain some windowed scrolling (as for frames), without the <br/>brokenness (mainly for bookmarking) of frames. <br/> <br/>It's useful instead of SSI when you're integrating content from multiple <br/>servers, such as including external ad content. <br/> <br/> <br/></td></tr> <tr><td class="body_post"><a name="12851"></a> <div style="background:#CCCCCC;">Posted by <i>Darin McGrew</i> on July 11, 2005, 7:37 pm </div> <div style="text-align:center;" class="bold">Please log in for more thread options</div> <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> Is there any consensus--at least here among subscribers to </i></div> <div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> c.i.w.a.html--over whether usr of the <iframe> tag is or was ever a good </i></div> <div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> idea? </i></div> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>> You can gain some windowed scrolling (as for frames), without the</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>> brokenness (mainly for bookmarking) of frames.</i></div> <br/>Inline frames are just as broken as regular frames when it comes to <br/>bookmarking, linking, printing, creating orphaned pages, etc. <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>> It's useful instead of SSI when you're integrating content from multiple</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>> servers, such as including external ad content.</i></div> <br/>Which makes disabling inline frames in your browser an effective way to <br/>increase the signal-to-noise ratio... <br/> <br/>Did someone mention the word consensus? :-) <br/>-- <br/>Darin McGrew, mcgrew@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/ <br/> Web Design Group, darin@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/ <br/> <br/> "It's easier to stay out than to get out." - Mark Twain <br/> <br/></td></tr> <tr><td class="body_post"><a name="12852"></a> <div style="background:#CCCCCC;">Posted by <i>David Dorward</i> on July 11, 2005, 8:37 pm </div> <div style="text-align:center;" class="bold">Please log in for more thread options</div> <br/> <br/>Andy Dingley wrote: <br/> <br/>(iframe) <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>> It's standard HTML with good widespread support. This makes it a useful</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>> alternatives to JavaScript tasks.</i></div> <br/>Which JavaScript tasks? <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>> You can gain some windowed scrolling (as for frames), without the</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>> brokenness (mainly for bookmarking) of frames.</i></div> <br/>It has exactly the same brokenness as frames. <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>> It's useful instead of SSI when you're integrating content from multiple</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>> servers, such as including external ad content.</i></div> <br/>Well, if it makes it easier for me to block the adverts with my hosts file, <br/>then that sounds good. <br/> <br/>-- <br/>David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/> <br/> Home is where the ~/.bashrc is <br/> <br/></td></tr> <tr><td class="body_post"><a name="12856"></a> <div style="background:#CCCCCC;">Posted by <i>Andy Dingley</i> on July 11, 2005, 11:56 pm </div> <div style="text-align:center;" class="bold">Please log in for more thread options</div> <br/> <br/>wrote: <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> It's standard HTML with good widespread support. This makes it a useful</i></div> <div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> alternatives to JavaScript tasks.</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>></i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>>Which JavaScript tasks?</i></div> <br/>The specific instance I was thinking of was in feeding external <br/>commercial ads, where these are more sophisticated than the old banner <br/>ad image + URL. If these were local then they'd be done by SSI, but as <br/>they're supplied by 3rd party ad-brokers then they can't be. Ad <br/>providers like DoubleClick, TangoZebra or even Google AdSense typically <br/>use some varyingly complex chunk of JavaScript to build the ad content <br/>dynamically on the page. Obviously this fails with JS turned off. An <br/>IFrame is a somewhat cleaner interface to offer them. <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> You can gain some windowed scrolling (as for frames), without the</i></div> <div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> brokenness (mainly for bookmarking) of frames.</i></div> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>>It has exactly the same brokenness as frames.</i></div> <br/>IFrames (ignoring JavaScript tricks) don't have independent scrolling <br/>from the page, as is commonly done with frames. Obviously this also <br/>removes their usefulness for one of frame's most commonly used <br/>functions, that of implementing shared menu bars without using SSI (as a <br/>right-thinking developer ought) <br/> <br/>You can bookmark framesets perfectly easily, the problem is that you can <br/>only thus retrieve the default set of URLs for the constituent frames. <br/>As IFrames don't navigate separately, this won't cause problems for <br/>bookmarking them (or to distinguish from IE's kludge, the ability to <br/>publish a URL, not just bookmark) <br/> <br/>In a literal sense, your comment is true "[IFrames] have exactly the <br/>same brokenness as frames." However if the OP reads the regular comments <br/>here that "Frames are bad because they can't be bookmarked" (true <br/>enough), it would be misleading for them to extend this real drawback <br/>onto IFrames, because the context of that problem simply doesn't arise. <br/> <br/><div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> It's useful instead of SSI when you're integrating content from multiple</i></div> <div class="body_comment_2"><i>>> servers, such as including external ad content.</i></div> <br/><div class="body_comment_1"><i>>Well, if it makes it easier for me to block the adverts with my hosts file,</i></div> <div class="body_comment_1"><i>>then that sounds good.</i></div> <br/>This is also a group for developers, not just web consumers. <br/> <br/>I spent some of today configuring three sorts of garbage filter onto <br/>Firefox, just so that I could read one of my own pages without risk of <br/>epilepsy. 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