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i don't like the "More..." in many screens like Settings
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i don't like the "More..." in many screens like Settings The PocketTV Team 12-20-2006
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Posted by Norman Diamond on December 20, 2006, 7:24 pm
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> why not put "More..." on the right soft key, which is not used, rather
> than map it to a digit or otherwise require two key press to get to the
> next screen (up then OK)

The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in locating
the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key not the right
soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for consistency, the Settings
screens would have to put "More" on the left soft key not the right soft
key.

Now, when you bought your Settings screens applet from Microsoft, did it
come in a package with a logo saying "Designed for Windows Mobile 5"? Of
course not. So don't expect consistency from the Settings screens.

> not only this would have made Settings easier to navigate, but it would
> also have freed one item in the list, i.e. better use of limited screen
> real-estate.

Bingo.

> i wonder is MSFT has competent UI experts, sometimes...

They sure do. Each product such as Vista or Office or Smartphone Start Menu
or Smartphone Settings Screens has a competent UI expert who watches trial
users try to deal with their product. Each expert comes up with the best
possible UI for their product. No trial user gets to try to deal with more
than one product. No expert watches another expert's trial users. No
expert talks to another expert.


Posted by The PocketTV Team on December 20, 2006, 8:58 pm
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> The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in
> locating the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key
> not the right soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for
> consistency, the Settings screens would have to put "More" on the left
> soft key not the right soft key.

i know, and my previous comments regarding the Settings applet also apply to
the Start applet. and in fact applarently here they improved something with
the icon layout, (an alternate to the list). in the icon layout for the
Start applet, all the icons can be scrolled through without having to select
"More..." to go to the next screen.

this is appreciable, it's just too bad they don't use that in Settings and
in many other configuration dialogs that are still based on their old stupid
paged-based lists.that don't scroll.


>
>> why not put "More..." on the right soft key, which is not used, rather
>> than map it to a digit or otherwise require two key press to get to the
>> next screen (up then OK)
>
> The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in
> locating the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key
> not the right soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for
> consistency, the Settings screens would have to put "More" on the left
> soft key not the right soft key.
>
> Now, when you bought your Settings screens applet from Microsoft, did it
> come in a package with a logo saying "Designed for Windows Mobile 5"? Of
> course not. So don't expect consistency from the Settings screens.
>
>> not only this would have made Settings easier to navigate, but it would
>> also have freed one item in the list, i.e. better use of limited screen
>> real-estate.
>
> Bingo.
>
>> i wonder is MSFT has competent UI experts, sometimes...
>
> They sure do. Each product such as Vista or Office or Smartphone Start
> Menu or Smartphone Settings Screens has a competent UI expert who watches
> trial users try to deal with their product. Each expert comes up with the
> best possible UI for their product. No trial user gets to try to deal
> with more than one product. No expert watches another expert's trial
> users. No expert talks to another expert.



Posted by Norman Diamond on December 21, 2006, 12:41 am
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[Norman Diamond]
>> The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in
>> locating the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key
>> not the right soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for
>> consistency, the Settings screens would have to put "More" on the left
>> soft key not the right soft key.
>
> i know, and my previous comments regarding the Settings applet also apply
> to the Start applet.

You mean you want to be consistent with Microsoft's rules for consistency
instead of Microsoft's practices?

> and in fact applarently here they improved something with the icon layout,
> (an alternate to the list). in the icon layout for the Start applet, all
> the icons can be scrolled through without having to select "More..." to go
> to the next screen.

That doesn't happen on mine. In the first Start screen, a down action from
the bottom row of icons wraps around to the top row, still in the first
Start screen, not advancing to the second Start screen. I just tried it on
two WM5 phones in two different languages, wrapping around twice just to
make sure.

> this is appreciable, it's just too bad they don't use that in Settings and
> in many other configuration dialogs that are still based on their old
> stupid paged-based lists.that don't scroll.

Consistency is the last refuge of an uncreative person. (That was probably
old when I read it 30 years ago.)


Posted by The PocketTV Team on December 21, 2006, 1:37 am
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> [Norman Diamond]

> That doesn't happen on mine. In the first Start screen, a down action
> from the bottom row of icons wraps around to the top row, still in the
> first Start screen, not advancing to the second Start screen. I just
> tried it on two WM5 phones in two different languages, wrapping around
> twice just to make sure.

try with the Samsung SGH-i607 aka Cingular BlackJack, it works like i
describe. it is probably based on a more recent version of the OS, compared
to the other devices that you tried. Or maybe samsung improved the Start
screen themself?



Posted by Sven on December 21, 2006, 12:26 pm
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Well, that's one of the realities with Windows Mobile. What is in your hand
is traceable to MS, but not necessarily attributable to them. The Start menu
you tend to see with nine positions, related to the nine hard key positions
is actually an OEM option. They could have stayed with the list as it was in
WM2003. There is a GPS virtual port control panel applet that is hidden by
most OEMs. Some include voice dial features, some don't. MS's Voice Command
is available to be put in ROM by OEMs. Some carriers cripple WiFi and BT
implementations. MS provides the OS, and some basic functionality, the OEMs
provide the rest. What you have in your hand is much more a Samsung device
than an MS one.

Whether the OEM changes are 'improvements' are a matter of personal
preference. I happen to like the App buttons and their layout relation to
the keypad. I find I can more quickly find an app by the icon than by
reading a list. I can see rapidly it's not on that page and hit more. Not
sure I'd like the settings list to scroll as opposed to being static and
numerically selectable.

I would guess you are welcome to write a new settings selector applet for
us. Doesn't sound like it would be that hard. Just a scrolling list that
executes other applications. Probably wouldn't be that hard to redirect the
current Settings icon in Start to your app. Don't forget to make it
compatible with every SP out there as they all have different lists of
settings. Be nice to let the consumer order the list too, alphabetize, set
to personal order, or even dynamically reorder based on use patterns. Oh,
and don't forget we want it skinnable.



--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
>
>
> try with the Samsung SGH-i607 aka Cingular BlackJack, it works like i
> describe. it is probably based on a more recent version of the OS,
> compared to the other devices that you tried. Or maybe samsung improved
> the Start screen themself?
>



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