URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

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Für folgndes kleine Problem habe ich zwar eine Lösung, aber ich finde sie
unübersichtlich. Gibt es eine simplere, die ich übersehen habe?

Problem: Schreibt man URLs ohne Zwischenräume, sind sie zwar im Fließtext
übersichtlich lesbar, aber nicht, wenn ihre Bestandteile einzeln Links
sind (sog. Breadcrumb-Navigation). Schreibt man sie aber mit
Zwischenräumen, sind es keine gültigen URLs mehr, was sich beim
Cut'n'Paste bemerkbar macht.

Lösung: Die Zwischenräume durch Style-Angaben ersetzen wie in
http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~hr/scn/slash.html .

Lesen kann man das aber nicht mehr. Gehts einfacher?

Helmut Richter

for thos who dont speak German... .Re: URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

Helmut Richter schreef:
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For folgndes small problem I have a solution, but I find her unclear. Is
there a simpler, which I surveyed? Problem: If one writes URLs without
gaps, they are in the flow text clearly readable, but not, if their
components separately left are (so-called Breadcrumb navigation). One
writes it however Gaps, there is no more valid URLs, which itself with
Cut' n' Paste makes noticeable. Solution: The gaps by Style data replace
as in http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~hr/scn/slash.html . To read one cannot
do however the no more. Does ' s go more simply?
(with thanks to: http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt )


Re: for thos who dont speak German... .Re: URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

I am sorry, wrong group. I intended to use a German group.

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Luuk wrote:

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... which I overlooked (the other meaning)

Quoted text here. Click to load it


Who sees the solution might find out what the problem was.

Helmut Richter

Re: URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

Helmut Richter schreef:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

This might not make thing simpler (oder einfacher ;-)

  1 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd ">
  3 <html>
  4   <head>
  5     <title>Slash mit anstäigem Abstand</title>
  6     <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
  7     <style type="text/css">
  8       .sp {margin-left: 0.28em; margin-right: 0.28em;}
  9     </style>
 10         <script>
 11         function changeColor(tag, newColor) {
 12                 elem = document.getElementById(tag);
 13                 elem.style.color = newColor;
 14                 elem.style.textDecoration = "underline";
 15                 elem.style.textDecoration = "overline";
 16                 if (newColor=="blue") { elem.style.textDecoration =
"none" }
 17         }
 18         </script>
 19   </head>
 21   <body>
 22     <h1>Slash mit anstäigem Abstand</h1>
 24     <p>So sieht der URL aus:
 25       http://www.example.com <span class="sp">/</span>first<span
class="sp">/</span>second<span class="sp">/</span>third.html
 26     </p>
 28     <p>Und so als Breadcrumb-Navigation:
 29         <span id="l1">
 30         <span id="l2">
 31         <span id="l3">
 32         <a href="http://www.example.com /">http://www.example.com </a>
 33         <span class="sp">/</span>
 34         <a href="http://www.example.com/first /"
 35         </span>
 36         <span class="sp">/</span>
 37         <a href="http://www.example.com/first/second /"
 38         </span>
 39         <span class="sp">/</span>
 40         <a href="http://www.example.com/first/second/third.html "
 41         </span>
 42     </p>
 43   </body>
 44 </html>


Re: URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

Luuk schreef:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

i uploaded the file to some place on the internet too:

i'm not good at CSS, but one can do nice things with it...


Re: URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:38:59 +0200, Helmut Richter wrote:

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I had to take some time to ponder this problem, and not just because I had
trouble with your German. (I had a whole lot more trouble with Luuk's
"translation". ;-) )

The strange thing about it is that I've never heard of this problem. I do
not believe I have ever seen breadcrumbs made out of URLs; they are
invariably page titles. So where you are trying to do something like

   http://www.example.com / first / second / third.html


   http://www.example.org / products / sony / phones.html

with each crumb being its own full link, most sites do something like:

   Example.com Home / Products / Sony / Phones

Do you see the difference? Nobody tries to read the URL from the
breadcrumbs, they want to know where they are in the site, how they got
there, and how they can get back. Dies ist m.M.n. übersichtlicher.

The problem you are trying to solve depends on a starting point where there
is exactly one wy to get to any page, and that is straight down the folder
tree. To go from Sony phone to iPhone phones in my example, you'd make the
user go up two levels to

   http://www.example.org / products

then down two levels to

   http://www.example.org / products / apple / phones.html

without any cross-linking between pages.

Otherwise, you are not talking about real breadcrumb navigation, just
displaying a page's URL on the page. And the URL is in the browser's
address field already.

Users who want to do copy-and-paste of the current or previous URLs can do
so with the context menu (right-mouse button) in (I believe) all modern
graphical browsers.

Hast du die deutsche Newsgruppen besucht? Es gibt z.B.
de.comm.infosystems.www.authoring.misc. Hier spricht man ja eher nur

I hope this helps. Viel Glück.

Further translations to German or English upon request.
Weitere Übersetzungen ins Deutsch oder Englisch auf Anfrage.

Re: URLs übersichtlich ohne Zwischenraeume

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009, John Hosking wrote:

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I have commented this point in de.comm.infosystems.www.authoring.misc -- this
is where I intended the original contribution to go.

If the URL consists of more or less the same words as a description of what is
there, why not use it?

How much "they want to know where they are in the site" depends on how the
site is organised.

 1. There are sites where the URL location has no semantic meaning. Then,
    consequently, there cannot be any such navigation as "Up", "Next", ...,
    either explicit as such or by representing a part of the tree in a
    navigation bar. For such sites, breadcrumb navigation is meaningless, too.

 2. There are sites that are hierarchically structured but have many links to
    semantically related but tree-wise unrelated pages. Then hierarchical
    navigation (tree excepts, breadcrumbs) are *one* of several means to find
    a page.

 3. There are sites that are strictly hierarchical and have only few links not
    following the tree structure. Typically such sites are those that have
    been produced by cutting a set of printed manuals into pieces -- links in
    printed text are rare compared to the info in the table of contents (= the
    tree of the book) and the index (= the search engine of the book).

Our site is intended to have the form (2) and sometimes still suffers from too
much form (3). Now, as we do have the tree structure, why not make it

Another question I am pondering is whether links that go semantically downwards
but hierarchically across the tree should be marked, e.g. with an extra
arrow. For example, if a question in a FAQ leads to an article where the
question is answered. The user may be surprised when he finds himself in the
article with the answer instead of a subarticle of the FAQ.

Helmut Richter

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