NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website

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Apologies first of all: dunno if that is a Newbie question or not and
maybe somebody can help.
I have programmed  a couple of my own pages just using a texteditor. I
use very simple language and frames. No fancy gimmicks, no jawa, gifs,
colors, fonts or anything, just simple html language with loads of
pictures embedded and text. (See here e.g.

Now here's my question:
1) Say, frame A has a.htm as its source
2) Say, frame B has b.htm and so on
3) the index.htm contains the frame information  and subsequently
calls up a.htm and b.htm into the respecting frames.

Now, somebody could directly access a.htm or b.htm and would not see
any of the other frames and contents. The content would not make

By using HTML language, is there a way to figure out whether index.htm
had requested the a.htm page or of the request came through from
somewhere else?

The idea is, if I coulsd detect that somebody wanted to access a page
which without the other frames does not make sense (is out of context)
I would immediately redirect the request to the index.htm and
everybody would be happy.

I hope what I say makes sense to somebody.


Thanks. Stephen

Re: NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website

In our last episode,
the lovely and talented
broadcast on comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

No.  Frames do not make people happy.  Think again.

Lars Eighner /
"We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with
     Kuwait."   -- Bush's Ambassador April Glaspie, giving Saddam Hussein
                       the greenlight to invade Kuwait.

Re: NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I once found a website that did that via Google. Except that it was
page "c" that I followed a link to. Some nasty JavaScript detected that
I wasn't viewing it in the frames and redirected me to the index ...
showing me pages 'a' and 'b'. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out
what had happened (after I spent some time trying to find another
website with the information I needed).

Avoid frames, they have many problems (even Netscape, who invented the
damn things, ripped them off their homepage after six months). There
are better alternatives to everything worthwhile that frames do.

David Dorward /

Re: NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website


Can you point to some examples of using CSS2 to produce frame effects
like the one I'm trying to get working with the following code (only
top level of each tier included).

Thanks in advance for any pointers you can provide.'


Model Presenter.html
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
   " ">
  <title>Website Development</title>
<frameset rows="10%,80%,10%">
  <frame src="Toolbar.htm" name="Toolbar">
  <frameset cols="10%,10%,80%">
    <frame src="Topics.htm" name="Topics"/>
    <frame src="Subtopics.htm" name="Subtopics/">
    <frame src="Workarea.htm" name="Workarea/">
  <frame src="Footer.htm" name="Footer"/>
      <H1>Table of Contents</H1>
        <LI><A HREF=" /">HTML
4.0 Reference</A></LI>
        <LI><A HREF=" /">HTML
3.2 Reference</A></LI>
        <LI><A HREF=" /">CSS

<body bgcolor="#8F8FBD">
<a href="Topic1.htm" target="Subtopics">Topic1</a>
<a href="Topic2.htm" target="Subtopics">Topic2</a>
<a href="Topic3.htm" target="Subtopics">Topic3</a>

        <a href="Topic1A.htm" target="workarea">Topics1a</a><br>
        <a href="Topic1B.htm" target="workarea">Topics1b</a><br>
        <a href="Topic1C.htm" target="workarea">Topics1c</a>

<body bgcolor="#8F8FBD">
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emsoduum wampum nastrovis ebulious epsodor
begulaurum aftosutus begularum arim adorus

Re: NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website

Richard Lionheart wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The section "What are the alternatives to using frames?" (along with Google
of course).

David Dorward       < <
                     Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

Re: NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website

Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:07:16 +0000 from David Dorward
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That section has problems, though: it makes a promise and then
doesn't deliver. It gives CSS as an alternative, with a link to CSS
FAQs, but the CS FAQs dont include anything relevant that I could

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
HTML 4.01 spec: /
validator: /
CSS 2.1 spec: /
validator: /
Why We Won't Help You:

Re: NEWBIE: Waccess to "frame"d website wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it


Requires JavaScript, not available on some client systems.  It's a kludge.

Solution: Avoid frames.  See

Chris Beall

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