# Alt text for equations - Page 2

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## Re: Alt text for equations

Unnecessarily verbose.  It's much simpler to communicate (-if not
understand) as I illustrated and some years ago at least it was
absolutely the correct way to phrase it as certified by the logicians
at Oxford.

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
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## Re: Alt text for equations

Neredbojias wrote:

PointedEars
--
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.

## Re: Alt text for equations

Ken Brown, Olivia's stag party, April, 1989.

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /

## Re: Alt text for equations

Neredbojias wrote:

IOW: This wording can be reasonably considered gibberish, or, if you prefer
a more Oxfordish term, your original research.  Thank you, I figured as
much.

PointedEars
--
Danny Goodman's books are out of date and teach practices that are
positively harmful for cross-browser scripting.

## Re: Alt text for equations

Not so, knave!  Actually, though, the more common way to phrase it
(-which for some reason eluded me on the previous posts) was broached
by someone in a subsequent message.  To wit, (n - 7) * 2 would be "the
product of n minus 7 times (/and) two.  "Product" was the thing I
forgot and it performs 2 functions: indicates multiplication and
summing all neatly in one word.  One could not use that same phrase to
mean n - 7 * 2 but might instead say, "N minus the product of seven and
two.  The point is that if n equals 9, the first quantifier is positive
and the second negative.

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /

## Re: Alt text for equations

[...]

It doesn't indicate summing, at least not to me, only multiplication.

## Re: Alt text for equations

Referring to the (1st) example, what are you multiplying by what?
Surely you see the summing there?

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /

## Re: Alt text for equations

(n-7) * 2 is the product of n minus 7 and two, which just means "(n
minus 7) multiplied by 2". No summing.

## Re: Alt text for equations

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 05:40:23 -0500, Ben C wrote:

This was the point I was making earlier.

I think it may be a British thing.  If I recall correctly, to a
Briton a "sum" is any arithmetical calculation; but to an American
it's strictly the operation of addition.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401 /
validator:      http://validator.w3.org /
CSS 2.1 spec:   http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21 /
validator:      http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator /
http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you

## Re: Alt text for equations

Stan Brown wrote:

Hmm, maybe that's why the Titanic sank! ;-)

difference => subtraction
product => multiplication
quotient => division

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

## Re: Alt text for equations

Grr.  The SUM is n - 7!  Or if you prefer, n plus negative seven.
Therefore, the word "product" does OFFICIALLY indicate the summing of
the first 2 numbers before multiplication (OR, if you prefer, the
multiplication of each number before summing.)  This is an established
standard - like html only better.

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /

## Re: Alt text for equations

But that's not indicated by the word "product"! The word that indicates
the summing here is "minus" (provided that we allow, for the sake of
argument, subtraction to be a kind of addition).

## Re: Alt text for equations

Yes it is, -in context.  Not in isolation, of course.

Yes, "plus", "minus", "and", etc., all designate summing, but before or
after the multiplication?  If I say, "two plus three times four", that
is 14.  If I say, "the product of two plus three times four, that
literally means summing before multiplication and is 20 - even if I
phrase it "four times the product of two and three".

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /

## Re: Alt text for equations

[...]

Well I think better English would be "the product of two plus three and
four".

But, yes, the product syntax is a nice way to specify precedence in
English, which might have been your original point.

We can use "the sum of" in a similar way. 4-2+1 = 3, but four minus the
sum of two and one is one.

You could even say things like, "four minus the sum of the product of
the product of the sum of two and one".

## Re: Alt text for equations

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 05:56:23 -0500, Ben C wrote:

Wouldn't it be a lot clearer to say "4 minus 2 plus 1"?  With no
indication of grouping, the operations of addition and subtraction
are done left to right, which is also reading order.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401 /
validator:      http://validator.w3.org /
CSS 2.1 spec:   http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21 /
validator:      http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator /
http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you

## Re: Alt text for equations

Mmm, maybe, but why?  What's the diff between "the product of two plus
three and four" and "the product of two plus three times four"?  I
prefer the latter because the "times" is an additional indicator.

Yes, and that's why I volunteered something like "n plus 7 sum times 2"
which several non-progressive members of this newsgroup seemed to take
exception to...

Yes, you could, but I think that's where the OP was getting confused.
Complex equations are still "a mouthful" no matter how eruditely one
might word them.

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /

## Re: Alt text for equations

That's why I dislike it. The pleonasm makes the sentence an anacoluthon.
If you say, "the product of two plus three times four" then my parser
has gone: "2+3*4 * ..." and is waiting for more input. If you end the
sentence there.

[...]

Probably why people invented all that notation for writing them with
symbols.

## Re: Alt text for equations

I would say this is evidence that it was not really a pleonasm
but rather an anacoluthon in the first place.

--
dorayme

## Re: Alt text for equations

Well, I think Neredbojias intended pleonasm but it comes across too

## Re: Alt text for equations

Gosh, I would never intentionally promote anacoluthonism and only
engage in pleonasmics when there is no other choice.

(Actually, I have no idea what either of those terms mean though one
time in Brazil I peed on an anaconda.)

Just goes to show that people can be smarter than parsers.  -Sometimes.
-Some people.  -Occasionally...

Sure.  It's just another language and simplfies communicating the media
involved.

--
Neredbojias

http://www.neredbojias.org /
http://www.neredbojias.net /