Recommendations for a surge protector? - Page 2

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary.  Now with pictures!

Threaded View

Re: Recommendations for a surge protector?

On Sep 30, 5:16 pm, wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

  Anybody can make claims.  But where are numbers to backup that
claim.  Let's takes you 'Resolve three'.  UPS has how many joules in
its surge protection circuit?  A few hundred joules is near zero.  So
it does provided protection - near zero protection.  The point - you
looked at things subjective from a sales brochure rather than obtain
facts from numbers.

  Where is this power conditioning?  Again, where are the numbers?
Most UPSes connect computer directly to AC mains when not in battery
backup mode.  Where is that conditioning?  Well its own controller
needs some filtering. So it does do some line conditioning.  Just no
conditioning on power to a computer.  Meanwhile, where is the power
conditioning?  Kony made that point.  That power conditioning is one
of the many functions required to be inside computer power supply.
The UPS provided no useful power conditioning.

  That was the UPS not in battery backup mode.   What happens when a
computer grade UPS is in battery backup mode.  Again, the numbers.
This 120 volt UPS outputs two 200 volts square waves with a spike of
up to 270 volts between those square waves.  That clearly is not
'power conditioned' electricity.  So why does 'dirty' electricity not
cause problems?  Again, the computer power supply must perform
conditioning so that 'dirty' UPS output voltage is irrelevant.  Again,
where was the power conditioning?  Not provided by the UPS that
actually applies some of the 'dirtiest' electricity to a computer.

  Please do not assume accurate facts are in sales brochures.  What
the UPS does is unknown until facts have numbers.  Only useful
function provided by that UPS is "a graceful shutdown in case of power
failure" or due to extreme brownouts.  No reason exists to believe
your UPS provided power conditioning or effective surge protection.
After all, where are numbers for that power conditioning and
protection?  If you have them, then post them.  Meanwhile, find those
same numbers in power supplies that conform to industry standards.
Power supply performs that power conditioning.

Re: Recommendations for a surge protector?

I do not make this recommendation based on brochures, but my personal
experience.  I have worked with personal computers with 20+  years
(beginning with some of the first IBM PCS).  I have a home computer
network consisting of 1 server and 3 personal computers.  The use of
UPS's has proven to be a reliable means of maintaining a reliable
network, with the exceptoin of extended power failures (> 30 minutes).

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: Recommendations for a surge protector?

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:19:50 -0500,

Quoted text here. Click to load it

You only briefly mentioned conditioning and surge
protection... so we can't really objectively assess the
validity of this on an unknown make/model of UPS.

Generally, yes some UPS provide some reregulation, and a
minimal level of surge protection.  The real question is
what level of protection the systems need, if they are not
of much value then it wouldn't make as much sense to pay
more for adequate surge protection instead of a data backup
protection (that is offline during everyday

The topic was surge protection, and in that topic we have to
see this UPS and basic multi-outlet protectors as only
capable of what their design allows.  Their primary purpose
is to be an UPS, or a multi-outlet strip.  The majority of
the construction budget is spent on this.  Surge protection
on this units is like a line-item marketing bonus for
promotional purposes.  It will stop some surges but much of
your equipment may already been resistant/immune to such
minor surges.

Re: Recommendations for a surge protector?

On Oct 2, 12:19 am, wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

  So WHY was using the UPS a "proven to be a reliable means of
maintaining a reliable network"?  Experience without asking why and
without numbers never provides facts.  Using without also learning why
only results in 20 years of speculation.   Assume your network would
be just as reliable without the UPS - except during short blackouts.
That would then agree with what the UPS manufacturer claims.

  Review Red Fox's post.  He 'feels' that 'lumpy' electricity caused
an Asus motherboard failure.  But computer's power supply must make
'lumpy' electricity irreelvant.  Even the UPS does not claim to
eliminate 'lumpy' electric problems.  You would say the UPS will fix
'lumpy' electricity because you used one and have no 'lumpy'
electricity?  That would be junk science reasoning.

  I appreciate your 20+ years as a user.  But how much experience do
you have tracing problems, replacing semiconductors to fix those
problems, demanding spec numbers, and repeatedly learning by asking
"why"?  Anyone can be a user and claim knowledge only by speculating.
How many telephone operators with 30 years experience can wire a
building or even fix a telephone?  Experience as a user does not make
one hardware informed.    Only some users bother to know by first
learning facts and numbers.   If those twenty years do not include
asking why - literally replacing semiconductors inside PCs - then
'why' do you know?

  My experience is almost double yours.  My experience comes even by
being shocked by B+ voltage from vacuum tubes.  IOW I did not know
until I also knew why.  Experience without knowing why is called
speculation.  Experience by "learning why" says a UPS (like that
Tripplite power strip) does nothing for Red Fox and his motherboard

  So he shutdown the computer because a power surge was "ongoing"?
20+ years experience should have told you immediately, "That is no
power surge."  With 20 years experience, you knew power surges
complete in microseconds.  But again, experience is useful only when
tempered by numbers.

  If 'lumpy' power from AC mains caused his Asus motherboard damage,
then the solution is to replace a 'defective by design' power supply -
one that contains essential functions.  Not a $100 UPS to mask
problems inside a 'defective by design' power supply.   What are those
many functions inside a power supply?  From 20 years of experience,
what missing power supply function would permit 'lumpy' electricity to
damage an Asus?

   That is the point.  My experience is not by performing as a
telephone operator. My experience is almost double yours.  My
experience is that too many users know without first learning why -
especially the numbers.  User experience is equivalent to knowledge by
only reading a sales brochure.  Useful knowledge means always learning
from the numbers - the numeric specification sheet.  From those
numeric specs, nothing in a UPS would have kept 'lumpy' electricity
from damaging his Asus motherboard.  But many urban myths will
recommend that UPS anyway.

  The primary and useful function of a UPS is data protection from
blackouts and extreme brownouts.  Does your experience report
incandescant lamps can dim to less than 40% intensity - and still the
computer must both power up and work just fine.  Even the original IBM
PC with a 40 watt supply met that spec.  Did 20 years experience teach
that fact?  A UPS is for data protection; when voltage drops even
lower.  UPS does not even claim to prevent Asus motherboard damage
from 'lumpy' electricity.

Site Timeline