Help with mobo upgrade

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Was going to buy a new pc, but have decided to wait a bit and have my spouse
build me a system later this year.

However, I did want to try Vista. I have used the Msoft advisor and I think
the specs are a bit misleading. Used Cnets, and I think theirs is a bit more
realistic, so my system needs to juiced up a bit.

I have an Asus P4-TE mobo with a Northwood P4 2.2 and a 1GB of rambus
memory. The memory is an issue, but I have 4 256 sticks on the motherboard.
To replace them with 4 512's is half the cost of a new system!

So, I have looked around the web for some motherboard/CPU combos and have
found some very reasonably priced with Prescott P4 3.0 ghz chips and
motherboards for under 150.00. I have not priced the memory needed because I
haven't yet selected a board, but I'd bet whatever it is,  it doesn't cost
whar RDRAM does.

What would be a decent selection for a CPU/mobo combination that would
accomodate such an upgrade. I would keep my GeForce6800 videocard and SB
Audigy card. The videocard is AGP so my selection of boards would be
somewhat limited.

Thanks a lot.

D.



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

DotNettie wrote:
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This is the "LGA775 AGP" list, and they tend to all be in the
"budget" catagory.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010200280+1070509908+1073407577&Subcategory=280

This one is an attempt to straddle the old and new worlds. It has
a PCI Express slot and an AGP slot. But the PCI Express is only
wired with x4 speed, instead of the normal x16. That is because
the PCI Express lanes actually come off the Southbridge. Also,
it has four DIMM slots, but two are DDR and two are DDR2. Which
means two sticks max at any one time. The comments here suggest
the AGP slot is the best for video, and maybe DDR memory would be
a good choice as well. But the thing is, if you want to reuse
the memory later this year, in a new build, you'd probably want
to go with DDR2. What I cannot tell you, is if the motherboard
is smart enough to automatically select DDR2-667 if you give
it DDR2-800. So the question would be, exactly what kind of memory
to use, so that you can get reuse of the memory later.

Asrock 775Dual-VSTA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp?Item=N82E16813157092

Manual and CPU list.
http://www.asrock.com/manual/775Dual-VSTA.pdf
http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.asp?Model=775Dual-VSTA&s =

    Paul

Re: Help with mobo upgrade

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I would just try Vista (if you must - its not much of an improvement, if at
all).
I think your PC will run it, it just may be a bit slow.

I've got a better CPU than you (AMD X2/4600), but I've got a gig of memory
and a 7300GT video card (not that much better than yours) and Vista RC1 runs
fine on it.
Not that it will be staying on my PC, I'll wait until the first service pack
arrives I think.

Just a thought, why not install Vista alongside your existing o/s? This is
what I've done - mine dual boots Vista and XP.

SteveH



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:48:57 GMT, "SteveH"


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Not to nitpick but a (plain vanilla) 6800 > 7300GT

Re: Help with mobo upgrade

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 04:52:47 -0500, "DotNettie"

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I suggest a socket 754 based motherboard and Athlon 64.
They can be had for under 150, will outperform the 3.0GHz
Prescott, and provide an AGP slot.  They use DDR(1), common
PC3200 memory which is slightly more expensive than DDR2
now, but pretty similar overall.

Since you want to run Vista, 2GB of memory is advised but
better 2 x 1GB modules instead of 4 x 512MB for the new
motherboard.

I would be very hesitant to jump onto the cheapest prices
found with web searches, some of the products may be of
questionable quality and/or sold by companies with
questionable ethics and/or poor support.  For example Tiger
Direct, a shady company often selling poor quality boards
bundled with CPUs.  On the other hand some better retailers
include newegg.com et al.  Perhaps you know this, but it's
certainly something to be aware of if not, better to pay a
couple dollars more from a trusted seller for good branded
products (like Asus).

Even if you could find affordable Rambus memory, to get the
full effect from Vista it would be prudent to upgrade the
CPU (and as required, motherboard too) as it is a bit of a
mismatch paying a premium for a new licensed OS to upgrade
to Vista but run it on old(er) hardware.  Another way to
look at it is that there is enough savings going with an OEM
version of Vista to offset the cost of other parts, but you
won't want to tie an OEM Vista license to parts old enough
that they'd be too slow too soon to get the best long term
value.

Re: Help with mobo upgrade


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Thanks to all who took the time to respond to my post.

I went to newegg and saw several socket 754 motherboards, but it was AMD's
lingo that threw me. I am not too familiar with their CPU's.

I found an Athlon 64 3200 2.2 ghz socket 754 for a whopping $55.00. The
other socket 754 was a bit slower, but those were the only two choices that
I found. Is this CPU decent enough for what I am trying to accomplish?

I am familiar with the Abit, Asus, Foxconn, but not ASRock or PC Chips
products. Are the latter two of decent quality? Aren't/Weren't there issues
with the boards with VIA chipsets. I saw VIA mentioned in some of the specs.
Maybe I am mistaken but "VIA" sticks in the back of my mind.

I greatly appreciate your assistance. If I can get this PC just upgraded
just a bit, my husband can work on building me a new system. I can pass this
little gem on to him as a present and play with the new OS in the meantime
for a very reasonable amount of money.

D.




Re: Help with mobo upgrade

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:47:16 -0500, "DotNettie"



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If you mean this,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103035
it is not a bad  choice for $55, but ultimately only you can
decide how much to spend versus how much performance you
get.



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There are a few more choices you may've missed,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001028+2010340343+1051707438


As for what is available elsewhere I don't know, socket 754
variety is less than it used to be and I haven't shopped
around for a socket 754 CPU recently.


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No, ASRock is a little better than PCChips but both are
better avoided, as is Jetway.  Generally it is better to
stick with Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte.  There are other
brands that are more hit-or-miss, Biostar and Soltek for
example, and others I probably wouldn't gamble on unless the
price was exceptionally low like ECS or Foxconn.  There are
certainly  chances of having good luck with a board I don't
"like", but these days the price differences are so little
that the other major brand boards (Asus, Abit, MSI and
Gigabyte) tend to be worth any slight price difference for
the better support and often better quality.  I'd also tend
to go for nForce3, over Via, Sis next but again someone may
do fine with other chipsets, I can only report what I found
to work well at the time.



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Via has had some bugs in past chipsets, and overall poorer
PCI bus efficiency for years.  AFAIK those problems are
worked out now but they always seem to have more quirks
performance-wise, I wouldn't terribly mind using one for
some purposes, but given a choice would easily take nForce3,
then Sis instead as mentioned previously.



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I don't know, had only assumed you needed a full ATX not
mATX board, and would probably pick this,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127228

It's a tough call though, I'd also be thinking about
spending more to upgrade to a PCI Express based platform and
a Core2Duo CPU, but of course it will cost $100 more just
for that and you'd then need to replace the video card too.
The one thing making me think more about it is that you'd be
buying 2GB of memory for a lower performing system (either
the socket 754 CPU mentioned previously or the P4 Prescott
you'd mentioned are both significantly slower and with
lesser total lifespan due to the older motherboard (lesser
feature sets), but it could be that you won't upgrade the
system again, some people do and some don't.
It seems like it's always a tough call for me to pick
between cheaper last generation parts which are a great
value and more for current generation, just moreso with a
plan to buy a lot of memory for it.

Re: Help with mobo upgrade



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I am grateful that you took the time to help. You are right in that this PC
will never be upgraded again. This box will be used as my husband's PC and
the family backup system. It will replace our old Micron, 1998 vintage which
is still running and functional, if you can believe it.

Anyhow, I will do some more research and select a board, CPU and memory and
leave the rest of the PC intact, as there is no need I don't think to do
anymore with this system. A few hundred dollars can get it a bit more Vista
ready with the budget more concentrated on selecting components for the
"dream PC".

I did do a bit of searching around before I posted here and the fastest chip
this Asus P4-TE can handle is a Northwood 2.8. The FSB is only 400mhz which
severely limits the choices. The 2.8 CPU is not readily available, but I did
find one at Powerleap for $229. (That would be more then the entire upgrade
cost with your suggestions)The memory costs 3-400 for 1 gb stick. At the
time I bought this PC, I didn't realize RDRAM was such a ripoff. I had
already replaced the videocard with the vanilla 6800 because the board is
AGP and this was the most it could handle.

Again, my thanks to you and other posters who took the time to help. Hope I
can get off the merry-g--round soon. LOL because I know that won't happen.

D.





Re: Help with mobo upgrade

Can't comment on the hardware but a few comments from someone currently
running vista:

-It's a memory pig.  Vista+Outlook 2007 running is almost 600MB of RAM.  I
have 1 gig of RAM and it's working OK but I suspect I'll have to add another
gig somewhere down the line.
-Old modem support in Vista is non-existent, so you probably will be looking
at upgrading your modem if you stick with the old hardware(but who cares,
modems are like $10).
-If your video card isn't up to snuff you can turn off stuff such as aero.
Aero is nice eye candy but it really doesn't add much to the
usability(although I have to admit I like the thumbnail of the app when
hovering over the task bar).
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Re: Help with mobo upgrade

I think you would be making a big mistake upgrading your computer at this
stage of the technology change that is happening right now. Trying to hang
on to your AGP 6800 is unfortunately a mistake, especially since you want to
use Vista. Yes its a good card but AGP has been extinct for almost a year
now and the performance from it as compared to the PCI Express is sub par at
best. If I were you, I would go down to your local library and read all the
recent computer mags from Maximum PC, CPU, PC World and see what they have
to say about what is the best parts for Intel. When you upgrade, you want to
"future proof" your computer so that upgrading isn't such a hassle or more
expensive than it has to be. There is also a new motherboard coming out for
intel chips later this year that you may want to have a look at. If you need
to upgrade now, AMD's AM2 standard is the cheapest way to go and it has good
performance. Yes you will have to get new ddr2 ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145590
as you would if you went with Intel. Do lots of research before upgrading or
your just going to end up with another frustrating computer.

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
It is violent/abusive/neglectful parents that churn out the serial
killers/murderers/child molesters etc.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- NFS: Most Wanted, Civ 4



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

If you must go intel use one of these motherboards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?DEPA=0&type=&Description=asus+p5b+deluxe&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
It is violent/abusive/neglectful parents that churn out the serial
killers/murderers/child molesters etc.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- NFS: Most Wanted, Civ 4



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

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http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?DEPA=0&type=&Description=asus+p5b+deluxe&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all
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And fix yer grossly oversized sig. It's not like you got bragging rights
with that rig anyway.



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

you've been down that road before. Give it up

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
It is violent/abusive/neglectful parents that churn out the serial
killers/murderers/child molesters etc.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- NFS: Most Wanted, Civ 4



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:29:47 -0600, "VanShania"

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Completely wrong.  If one were to buy a 6800 for PCI Express
and one for AGP and all else in system were as equal as
possible, they would have statistically insignificant
difference in performance.  There is nothing "sub par" about
AGP, except the future upgrade options, that newer cards
aren't being released in AGP or those that are presently
available are often slower clocked... but that is not what
we were considering, that there was a desire to reuse the
6800.



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCompare.asp?Category=38&Brand=1561&N=2010380048+50001561&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Manufactory=1561&SubCategory=48&CompareItemList=N82E16814102045%2CN82E16814102071%2CN82E16814102046%2CN82E16814102067




Re: Help with mobo upgrade

And I'm saying its a mistake to upgrade a computer based on an agp vid card.
All she would have to do is save her pennies for an extra month and buy a
pci-express X16 motherboard, so she can buy the appropriate vid card that
would blow the 6800 out of the water. Also, newer motherboards are coming
out later this year where the pci-express will be running at X32.( not
talking about the X32 you get from sli'ing 2 X16 cards either)




Re: Help with mobo upgrade

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:19:08 -0600, "VanShania"

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Maybe, it depends quite a bit on the purpose.  Personally I
think it's a mistake to run Vista on anything, so,



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Please spare us the nonsense statements like "blow it out of
the water".  Since it isn't in water and that is
unnecessarily vague, it is really of no point.  We don't
know what games are being played, and therefore cannot
justify a recommendation of a better card at this time
without any evidence it is a bottleneck.

It could be a better long  term investment to go PCI
Express, to some people.  It would seem this was already
obvious to the OP and yet, here's this thread stipulating it
is desired to reuse it, so,



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... which will be completely pointless at this point in
time, 16X was already faster than it needed to be, is not a
bottleneck at all.

Essentially you are suggesting all the latest and greatest
at a cost premium.  The majority of people using computers
are not looking to pay for that, don't even have a system
ready to run Vista- but that was the goal and here's the
thread, so,

Re: Help with mobo upgrade

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As I said above. I just don't see what the rush is to pay for any M$ o/s as
soon as it's come out. Let the other fools pay for it and go though the
grief, wait a year or so and see how its performing in the wild.
Except in the case of Vista, of course, there isn't really isn't the need to
do that, as it's no great improvement over XP anyway. As I've said before,
I've got it dual booting with XP and I've hardly used it as I don't see a
use for it over XP.

SteveH



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCompare.asp?Category=38&Brand=1669&N=2010380048+50001669&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Manufactory=1669&SubCategory=48&CompareItemList=N82E16814150219%2CN82E16814150150%2CN82E16814150216%2CN82E16814150195%2CN82E16814150130%2CN82E16814150208%2CN82E16814150202%2CN82E16814150183%2CN82E16814150218

As you can see from the comparisons, Even the overclocked 6800XT is only $50
cheaper than top of the line 7900's(excluding the 8800 of course) which are
much faster. No big dolla dolla here.
Also I read some of the reviews regarding ATI cards and noticed that they
run pretty hot. May want to avoiud them till AMD/ATI get better drivers and
control of thier heat.



Re: Help with mobo upgrade

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http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCompare.asp?Category=38&Brand=1669&N=2010380048+50001669&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Manufactory=1669&SubCategory=48&CompareItemList=N82E16814150219%2CN82E16814150150%2CN82E16814150216%2CN82E16814150195%2CN82E16814150130%2CN82E16814150208%2CN82E16814150202%2CN82E16814150183%2CN82E16814150218
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And what has that got to do with what I said?

SteveH



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