Re: SATA II Harddisks ? - Page 2

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary.  Now with pictures!

Threaded View

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Well I have compared the amd athlon x2 processor + nvidia nforce 4 chipset
vs the intel pentium 4 extreme edition + intel 955x chipset.

I have looked at benchmarks, features, software optimization guides and

In general I like the athlon x2 and nvidia nforce 4 chipset a lot and here
is why :)

1. Bios voice stuff:

The coolest thing is the "bios voice reporter stuff".

For example when the keyboard is not plugged in and the voice stuff is
enabled it will say with a human voice: "no keyboard plugged in"  or
something like that.

There is even a boot option so everytime you boot it says:

"booting computer" or something like that.

It's even possible to replace these voice message with your own voice which
could be lot's of fun everytime you start your pc.

I could say something like: "welcome skybuck" :)

Anyway that's just way cool and I want to see it in action ;)

2. Best performance in AMD/NVidia 4 corner occording to many websites...
which is not too surprising looking at the facts/theory:

Athlon x2 4800+ fastest... occording to benchmarks.


SLI can support two graphics cards.

DDR memory has lower latency than DDRII memory.

Athlon X2 has onboard memory controller halving the latency even further.

3. Software optimization guide...

AMD's software optimization guide was clear, short and straight to the

However it didn't go into the multi threading stuff that much etc...

Intel looked at it from a little bit higher view... focusing more on
threading and cache stuff etc...
The general impression was that software would have to be optimized a lot
for the intel processor to achieve more performance which might be a little
bit too much to ask for programmers etc... In the end the software has to be
able to run on AMD and INTEL processors as well as possible. Though intel
did provide some very interesting examples for 3d engines etc... ;)

So in short AMD's software optimization guide was pretty simple and easy to
follow but I also kinda liked the intel software optimization guide ;)
though a bit more complex and harder to follow ;)

What I don't like about intel stuff is the following stuff:

- No cool bios voice stuff.. just the normal (pretty stupid beeping :))
which is a big turn off for me lol :D... zero innovation ;)

- Much higher power/watt/ampere requirements etc... more expensive for
electril bill and needs big expensive power unit...

Though intel has some little points going (possibly)

+ 8 GB ram support  (but no 2 GB ram chips available ?)
+ SATA II support (nvidia nforce 4 is only sata I support ?)
+ Asus is using passive cooling for some chips... (not sure what nvidia
nforce 4 boards are using ?)

This last point is something I am definetly going to look further into
because I just fucking hate cooling fans since they attract lot's of dust
and make noise etc... I fucking hate em ;)
I live in a very dustry environment ;)

Though I never cleaned my pentium III cooling fan and it's still working
after 5 years which is pretty amazing... I did blow off some dust sometime.
My power fan having has to be cleaned at least once in two years etc.

So I wonder if any cooling fans are sleave or ball bearing... The sleave
bearing fans are probably worse because dust can get inside of them... the
cpu fan is probably a ball bearing fan which probably explains why it is
still going strong ;)

However having everything passively cooled invokes fear inside of me... fear
that not enough air flow is inside the motherboard... heat building up and
chips dieing ;) I do have a fanless video card (fx5200) and it's still
working... it too is passively cooled.

The biggest drawback for AMD/Athlon x2 4800+ is the bios problem... a flash
is needed.

+ So having a intel motherboard which works right out of the box which is
available too is a big plus ;)

+ Also the intel motherboard supports DDR2 memory... will this is slower it
is the future of memory chips so probably not much to worry about
availability of those chips.. However I plan to buy as much memory as
possible so for me it's not a problem... unless the chips die in the future

So the asus intel motherboards have some strong points going for them ;)
(P5WD2 Premium (asus/intel/intel) vs A8N-SLI deluxe (asus/amd/nvidia) )

1. Immediate availability of motherboard and processor right out of the box.
2. Passive cooling of motherboard chips. (I think the processor still has a
fan which might be good for a little bit of airflow ? However passive
cooling for the cpu might be very impressive too ;) )
3. DDR II memory chips (slower but the future)
4. SATA II support
5. Possibly 8 GB ram support ? I expect 4 GB of ram to be enough for the
coming 5 years. The pc will probably last 5 years... then it would need
replacing to keep up with the games ;)
(Within a year I expect the minimum ammount of ram to be 1GB for longhorn...
even 2 GB for gaming... then slowly it will go up to 4 GB after a couple of
years ;) ) so I think 8 GB of ram could be too much for the coming 5 years
;) however... it never hurts to have extra memory ;)
6. Better realtek codec 882d high definition (audio)

I am a little bit worried about the AI NOS feature... it will automatically
overclock the system if a game needs more performance... I am worried about
overheating or crashes...

Well it's a though decision...

There is one more thing ofcourse... the intel pentium 4 extreme processor
acts like 4 cpu's... which could be better in case windows xp 64 bit has
many threads running at once... hyper threading tries to use parts of a
processor which are not used by other threads ;)

On one hand we have this overheating nvidia nforce 4 sli chip... but maybe
it only overheats with two graphics cards... but a cooler athlon x2
processor ?
at least it uses less power...

On the other hand we have this cooler intel chipset ?? passively cool...
which could get a bit hotter but ok... but also a pretty hot power consuming
processor ? ;) hmmmmmmmmm. Which requires a power consuming psu which also
could get quit hot... hmmmmmmmmm... :)

If asus would come out with a new motherboard which would support the athlon
x2 processor out of the box and maybe with passive cooling for the
chipsets... then I would be sold ;) and go for it =D add in 8 GB of ram
support and maybe sata II support <- but maybe that s not possible with
nvidia nforce 4 chipset... and it s even a better deal ;) oh yeah and
ofcourse the better realtek audio.. however I will probably get an
additional sound card for extra fps or maybe not =D

The biggest problem is I want to build my own system and have all brand new
components in a sealed package... I do not want to buy used components etc,
which might be malfunctioning etc ;)

(maybe the intel raid controller is better too... who knows ;) but I am not
that interested in raid ;) the biggest frustration is the limited i/o
operations of harddisk in general... raid won't help that much... so I'll go
with seperate harddisk and a page file on a seperate harddisk ;) and
ofcourse windows software tweaks ;))

However I might give raid 0 a try just for kicks to see the transfer speed
etc... maybe to store games on it for faster load times... but the harddisk
might not be the problem... maybe it's the decompressing of zip files etc...
which means cpu limited etc ;) :)


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

This was a hell of a post, thank you Skybuck. Don't need to read any
comparisons anywhere else, since you have done the job for me already.

In the end, I still can't decide what I'll buy next, and I am still
happy with the i875 board, 3.2 Prescott and X800XT :)

A friend of mine is going to HongKong on holiday in 2 weeks and will buy
his stuff there: X2 it will be, along with 7800GTX. I guess I'll need
his demonstration before I plan the next purchase.


Skybuck Flying wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Milleron brought another motherboard to my attention.

It's the asus a8n-sli premium ;)

It seems a newer motherboard than the deluxe version.

The premium should work with the athlon x2 ;)

The premium also has passive cooling (so no extra fan on the chipset, only a

I read half of the manual yesterday and I ll try to read the rest today.

After I am done I still have some questions and little doubts etc... but
I'll post them in some other/new thread ;) to keep everything together ;)

So I am convinced to get the athlon x2 4800 and the premium motherboard...

But I am thinking/planning to order like two maybe three weeks from now so
some things could change ;)

Quoted text here. Click to load it
to be
has a
I'll go

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Skybuck Flying wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

If you refrained from top-posting and did proper snipping you
wouldn't have transmitted 300 odd lines that have no connection
with your post.

"If you want to post a followup via, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on
 "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
 "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

FWIW, some of us greatly prefer top-posting so that previously-seen
text is "below the fold" of the screen instead of the new text being
below the fold.

FWIW2, I agree that snipping out nonessential old material would be a
good thing.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:56:40 -0400, CraigNJ

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Then buy a keyboard or mouse, either are quite fine for

Essentially the top-posters argument always revolves around
laziness, no regard for breaking up the logical continuity
of a discussion so long as their finger doesn't have to
press a button... lord knows we don't ever have to click or
scroll otherwise when using a computer.

Here's a thought- If you really can't manage to scroll a
page of text, you're not capable of reading email, surfing
the web, or myriad other computing activities.  You should
practice it over and over till it becomes as easy as
everyone else finds it.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Dude, the problem is not our posting behaviour but your lack of brain power.

The rest of us have no problem following top posters.

Big deal =D



Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:14:23 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

For simple one-liners no, but try it with a post that's
actually covers Q&A, details, and the problem is obvious.

Random chatter like an email can work fine with top-posting.
This isn't email.  All these arguments were posed for years
and when bottom-posting works better it was the dominant
form.  You're arguing about something already decided by the
majority that HAVE the brain-power to realize the benefit.  

Then fast-forward to the brain-dead MS era of Outlook
Express.  By defaulting to top-posting for email but also
offering usenet access, suddenly the lazy or inexperienced
users couldn't grasp (or perhaps ego prevented them from
accepting) that they had it backwards, that they are
disrespecting the majority in a given group when they don't
follow the conventions that group uses. In other words, in a
group where the majority top-posts, it becomes the
preferreed format.  Adhering to a standard posting format is
better for the group whether you realize it or not.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?


For fuck's sake.





If you want to see the new text you have to click the message twice before
you can view it... very annoying...

So top posting is much better for google ;) :P


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?


Why the fuck should I have to scroll through text which I already read ;) =D

  Skybuck =D

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:15:26 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Because you'd be pruning that text anyway so your cursor is
ALREADY at the bottom of the screen!

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Quoted text here. Click to load it

No dumbass...

I first have to scroll though my own text... before I can read the reply of
somebody else if he down posts.

Top posting allows me to read the text immediatly.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:13:47 +0200, "Skybuck Flying"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

It would seem you have more problems than merely being able
to scroll text.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Quoted text here. Click to load it

It seems some people will nag about irrelevant bullshit.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Despite some misperceptions to the contrary, top-posting does not have
to mean backwards flow nor lack of snipping.  It can mean more
efficient writing & reading of very short responses, and the
flexibility to mix in Q&A sequence when needed, like this posting.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Flaming sarcasm is neither appreciated nor warranted.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
And what would you call excessive generalizations like that?  ;-)  To
be fair, though, human efficiency does seem the primary argument.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
I think I already answered that issue by example.  ;-)

Quoted text here. Click to load it
You have no idea what I am or am not capable of, nor what physical
pain I may or may not have from decades of heavy mouse & keyboard use.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Yes, I've lived through decades of them.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
I hope this isn't degrading into name-calling.
Sure, bottom-posting has advantages sometimes. It especially did back
when bandwidth was limited and we could count on people to snip out
unnecessary text.  <Insert pause for nostalgic moment.>

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Yes, maybe the sheer numbers of all those newcomers shifted the
numerical majority toward so-called lazy top-posting.  FWIW, in my
case, I and my preferences predate all that.  It didn't surprise me to
see the norm evolve with begrudging tolerance of both old and new
among most people, exactly like happens to language.  (Hark, yonder
cometh language anew.   Isn't change nifty ... neat ... cool ... rad
.... bad ... phat ... hot?  ;-)      )

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Yes.  Thank you for the judicious snipping.  Sadly, many contributors
to the threads I read don't bother, so they often grow "below the
fold" of my screen.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Hmmm, I don't know of any that automatically detects & jumps to the
reply text when bottom posting is used.  Sure sounds nice for when I'm
plowing through dozens of articles.  ;-)

Quoted text here. Click to load it
I can relate to that, but I can't complain about top-posters not
snipping stuff below their reply since I can ignore it without effort
(I usually just finished reading it in the prior post they are
replying to), and since todays capacities and bandwidth is so huge
that a few dozen extra lines of text cost nearly nothing.  (Blame the
binaries!   ;-)     )

PS -- Please accept my apology for perpetuating this off-topic
tangent.  I'll stop now.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 01:49:30 -0400, CraigNJ

Quoted text here. Click to load it

"can mean",  like "does not have to mean".

Quoted text here. Click to load it

There was nothing more efficient about your post than a
traditition bottom-posting.  Bottom-posting does NOT
necessarily mean the entire body of added text at the very
bottom, rather that all prior text (that is still relevant)
comes before subsequent text.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I didn't ask if you appreciated it, but apparently you need
this info.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

No, you wrote some text.  I'll give you "incorrect answer".

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Apparently I DO have an idea what you're capable of, as it
is evidenced.  Perhaps you still have use of your
clicker-finger but simply a mental bock.  That is still an

Nobody argued not to use top-posting in a top-posting group.
Respect the conventions of the group or find one where
top-posting is the standard.

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

CraigNJ wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Top-posting fixed :-)  On most systems this entire article will
appear on a single screen.

You can move to the other end of an article instantly with almost
any viewing software.  In practice, top-posters never snip, so that
besides being incomprehensible they are an unnecessary load on the

F'ups set.  I am not affected by what a.c.p.m.asus does.

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Judhging from your posts I think you SHOULD have someone else build your PC.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Just make sure wherever you get your motherboard from that you specify it
have the BIOS that supports X2.


Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Neh... all my computers so far where build by others...

This time I want to build it myself because that's part of all the fun =D

But I want to build it with new well working components =D

I will definetly stay far away from over clocking... why anybody would want
to risk destroying their 3000 to 4000 dollar costing pc is beyond me ;)

I wonder how many damaged motherboards have been returned by overclocking
bullshit ;)

Well I will have none of those dude... ;)


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Re: SATA II Harddisks ?

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Not as many as are returned by first time PC builders who don't know how
build a PC.

Site Timeline