Noisy CPU fan - Page 3

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Re: Noisy CPU fan

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:56:54 GMT, "Noozer"

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Yes that is a very good point- particularly with filtered
intake.  Unfortunately far too few filtered cases are set up
properly to achieve this positive pressurization.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

HA!  Tell that to Compaq/HP.  All my servers are vacuums!

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Re: Noisy CPU fan

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You obviously over looked the CAPITALIZED word WANTED.  Wanted air out
NON-WANTED air in is still equal in equal out.  But that is NOT what you
want to do.  Thus I re-phrased.

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That's all well and fine but it still doesn't cover the other issue of over
powering say an intake fan by demanding more from it then it can handle.
That still creates excess noise.  Creating an exhaust only system that
measures up to your IF statement is not something the average Joe can do at
their local PC store.  It's very easy when you are manufacturing your case
around your proprietary hardware.

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The source?  I never said it was.  But it does create noise.  Keep tinkering
with your case and drop a single dB here and there.  It all adds up.

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Absolutely.  See my comment about fan quality.  Adding rubber mounts also
makes a world of difference.

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Actually in your haste to tell me I was wrong you are wrong yourself.  "the
key is definitely NOT "as often as possible" --- that comment itself is very
incorrect.  You next sentence is more accurate.  Of course there will be
overkill.  Obviously you don't need to change the air out 10,000 time per
minute as that would make you fail or not be "successful" in the NOISE
department.  However if you where to change out the air 10,000 per minute or
a 1,000,000 times per minute you would certainly still succeed in a
air cooling rig.  Maybe you thought I was talking about cooling AND noise?
At that moment in time I was not talking about noise.  For me, I'll deal
with up to 60dB but then again I overclock and have very high end equipment
that I want to keep cool.

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With low end hardware (and some mid range), sure.  Are you telling me you
can do it with ALL HARDWARE on the market?  Bullshit.  Not only that but
again, OEMs ARE NOT doing it with store bought equipment.  If I could make
my own case and mainboard then I to would redirect all CPU heat straight out
the case and never let it interact with the rest of the hardware.

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Really?  So you missed all the data at the end of the message?  Do I need to
repeat myself?

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It wont get you 160CFM...ok, not sure what the point is???  All I'm doing is
measuring the input/output.  You are right though free air 60CFM fans will
not give you 60CFM in a case.  I already jumped into the case mounted specs
of 60CFM.  I think the point has been lost here.

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Over-driven - forcing a fan to spin faster then it would on it's own.
Under-driven - forcing a fan to spin slower then it would on it's own.
Depending on the fans quality, usually overdriving a fan will cause it to
spin enough off balance to cause a decent noise increase.

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Not when everything has heat sinks on it.  I have heat sinks on my NB, SB,
two video cards, CPU and memory.  The NB, SB and memory do not have fans.
If I slow down my intake and exhaust (exchange air fewer times per minute)
then my inside temp rises.  If I speed up my fans (exchange more air per
minute) then my inside temp lowers.  Now which is better for my components?
Hotter air or cooler air?  If you did nothing to change the air in your case
then all you would be doing is blowing hot air on your hot components.
Replacing the air inside your case "often enough" to reach the outside
temp is the best and cheapest way to air cool your rig.  If I turn off my
front fan then my inside temp rises above the outside temp and all my
components start to heat up little by little.  That is NOT a machine I want
on 24/7.  The average exhaust only machine DOES NOT reach outside ambient
temp.  Notice the word AVERAGE.  Of course it's possible.  Just make sure
you test your rig under heavy usage.

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Dude....COULD and SHOULD are completely different.  Your comment is correct
but I'm not sure why you made it???

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Nothing wrong with it at all.  It's called having good fans.  Unless
"according to you" digital sound level meters are bogus?  They where however
three speed fans and I had them on the middle setting.  Yes, the highest
setting was louder (obviously) however the middle setting was enough to push
the air I needed.

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Again, WHAT HARDWARE?  You are being to general.  Should Of, Would Of, Could
Of...of course it can be done but not with all hardware.

If I took your 90mm exhaust only case and turned it into two 120mm with the
same noise output it would still push more air through.  Which would you
rather have?  After all there would be no extra noise level (they wouldn't
have to spin as fast).  I'd rather go with more protection.

1. 90mm exhaust only - 30dB - xCFM at rear
2. Dual 120mm fans - 30dB - yCFM at rear


You will also notice the inside case temp is closer to outside temp in
scenario 1 then scenario 2.  Is it ok to run your system a little hot?
Sure.  Go for it.  But at zero dB cost why not go for BETTER?  Unless you
can't afford two fans.

Generalized comment (mostly to the other guy "David"):   Those are my
numbers with my my meters.  Don't believe them?  Good for you!  Go get your
own numbers.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

Ugh, yes I screwed this one up.


You will also notice the inside case temp is closer to outside temp in
scenario 2 then scenario 1.

Thus having cooler components.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:25:24 -0800, "ISOHaven"

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You must live on another planet, and the word "fan" means
something else there...  here on earth, there's no power
struggle with fans, we dont overpower them or make demands.
Since the peace treaty of 1934, we've been peacefully

Perhaps you  meant something like "system creates more heat
than the fan can remove"?

That's hard to do, real hard, if you have a 120 x 38mm
exhaust fan and ample passive intake area.  A P4 and SLI'd
video cards aren't enough to do it.  Maybe a pair of Xeons,
a dozen drives, yes then you'll need more fans.  Then again,
it's drifting away from the key issue here as such a system
is usually not on one's desktop, it's noise level is not so
important except to those stuck working around it.

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Depends a lot on that local PC store.  It's quite common to
be able to buy an HP, Compaq, Dell, that have the lone
exhaust fan on the rear, typically even cooling the CPU.

If you meant a clone builder, if you just accepted their
"built it as cheaply as possible", package, you'd probably
get a low-end clone case that makes it impossible but if
they give you the option of the case you want, certainly
there are more and more cases with a 120mm rear fan mount
and increasing amount of front intake area.  People DO build
systems that are quiet using stock parts... I only mentioned
the inline resistor on the fan for the final step in noise
reduction, but without that resistor the fan is almost
certainly more airflow than needed.

Maybe you just assumed a thicker fan was not useful and
therefore have never known one thicker fan could do very
well.  It is certainly more useful with an exhaust-only
configuration than having 120 in both intake and exhaust as
the pressure differential is present in the former.

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No, relatively it does not create noise.  Adding a fan on
the front always creates more noise than passive intake,
unless you somehow managed to seal up everything but 3 large
holes and duct-taped a trumpet to each hole.

The idea that air flowing in these holes is beside the
point- which is that there is no quieter way to do it.
Airflow creates noise.  Ideally most will be routed in
through the drive rack in a passive arrangement but that is
not to overcome a trival level of noise, it is to maximize
the effectiveness of a given flow rate.

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Agreed, it can help a lot, though of course that also
depends a lot on how prone the case was to vibrate and the
balance of the fan(s).  Not all cases need them, and often
adding them requires further steps for best results- sealing
off the gap that is created around the fan frame.


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Has nothing to do with it.
Overclock or not, it's still a matter of certain heat level
and removal.  

60dB?  Wow that's loud, why would you put up with that?
There is no overclocking level that requires it.

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Almost all, yes.  SLI'd video cards, overclocked, "may" need
supplimental cooling.  If there were a half-dozen hard
drives, they might benefit from a front pusher fan.

Otherwise, yes it's not just possible it's fairly easy with
mid-range and high-end systems.

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You seem to only feel that way because you ignore the
methods others use to successully do it.

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Why would you have to make your own case or board?
Rather trivial thing to build a rear fan duct, but it
usually isn't necessary.  Large rear fan alone does a pretty
good job of removing "enough" of the heatsink exhaust.  It's
not perfect but it doesnt' need to be, only cool enough at a
low noise level.

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No you just need to apply it as I'd written.  What you wrote
previously doesn't address it.

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That makes no sense whatsoever.
What planet are you on anyway?

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I just HAVE to know, what method are you proposing to make a
fan "do" something different than it would on it's own?

Are we talking about a mouse, a wheel, and a rubber band,
sorta like they did everything on the Flinstones?

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"Overdriving" and "underdriving" are not terms used in the
fan industry.  They are not terms used in the computer
industry.  Whatever it is that you mean, please use common

Whatever it is that you mean, I have never suggested
anything even remotely similar to trying to make a fan spin
faster than it ????? otherwise would.  Typical PC fans are
spec'd for 12V.  That's to create the RPM spec, but
manufacturers generally provide full spec in the
documentation, something like a range of 50% of that up to
120% of that.  In other words, a typical fan with 12V on the
label is spec'd for operation from 6V to 14.4V.  Not all of
them, there are several other variables like the resistor
put into the RPM control circuit inside and whether it has
internal voltage regulation (less common).

It is typically a matter of RPM though, how low the fan can
spin before becoming noisey.  Whatever it is you mean by
"overdriven" or "underdriven", the concepts can safely be
ignored, they are not applicable to implementation, normal
or best use in a PC.

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Yes, when everything has heatsinks... that is not some kind
of "special" condition, that is the expected norm for any
part with sufficient heat generation.

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Yes, not news.  So what?

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Depends on the actual temp inside.
Lower is not better if it doesn't yield any gain.  If the
shortest lived parts in the system, OR the viable lifespan
of the system has been exceeded before there is any failure,
you have lost nothing but noise.

Ironically enough you are probably thinking you have chosen
to promote longer life.  It is doubtful, I take temps
everywhere, and plan for a bare minimum of a decade of
service before even a video card fan failure, only dusting
out the system.  This means voiding video card warranty to
remove the poor stock fan but otherwise, I meet these goals
by not just vaguely noticing a chassis air temp rise but
actually checking parts for their condition.

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Sufficiently vague enough to have no real meaning.

You are reciting what is essentially a primer introductory
paragraph from some website.  This are the crude basics,
which one follows until they become competent to assess
cooling enough to know how changes are effecting the system.

BTW, you're delusional if you think it's necessary to try to
reach an exterior temp inside the case.  More than anything
it is only a sign you have no sound methodolgy for assessing
case temperatures.

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They heat up a few degrees, instead of 60dB fans, yes.
They don't experience thermal runaway, they just rise a few
single-digit degrees.  If the rise you see is higher, your
case is not set up very well and it should be reassessed.

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"Want" is an arbitrary human emotion that has nothing to do
with reality in this context.  Ever been to a website?
Point is that every server on earth has been running at a
modestly higher temp internally than the exterior temp, for
years straight save for maintenance downtime, cleaning fans
or   swapping out aging hard drives on a schedule.

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The average system with a front intake and rear exhaust
doesn't reach outside ambient temp either.  Fortunately,
there is no system that needs to reach ambient inside.  It
is very fortunate since that is physically impossible,
because the system itself generates heat and any and all
accurate methods of heat measurement will show, even if only
slight, temp rise over the external ambient temp.

You certainly have some rather crazy ideas, and since it's
your system, you're free to explore them.... that doesn't
mean it's necessary though, and it's quite easy to see this
by simply taking the temperature of parts.

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Ah the folly of youth.  I made it because you are claiming
to attempt same case temp as ambient, and mentioning 60dB
previously.  That is completely unnecessary and you're
obviously running your fans WAY too loud for those who seek
a moderately quiet system.

You have randomly described several different situations
now, with CPU fan off, 0dB, 60dB, and a complete lack of
understanding about whether it's necessary to try to get
temps as low as possible despite noise levels when it's not
a contest, you don't win anything by getting a part 5C
cooler so long as the temp of that part was still
sufficiently low enough to promote an acceptible lifespan.

That acceptible lifespan is easily achieved with only one
exhaust fan.  The funny part is that if you're running your
fans fast enough that you are getting an internal temp
reading as low as the external ambient temp, you are most
likely creating an early failure point by wearing the fans
out quicker, especially if using marginal quality fans like

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You're either lying or not capable of taking accurate noise
level readings.  Any fan spinning, I mean ANY fan, spinning
even at the lowest speed possible, produces more than 0 dB.
Even ZERO fans, only a hard drive spinning, creates more
than 0 dB... even if your ears can't hear it, the noise is
still there.

yes, according to me whatever method you used to get a 0dB
level, it is wrong.  It's not even likely the background
noise in the room was sufficiently low enough to be
unmeasurable, 0 dB.

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No, that is not necessarily true. In fact, given two 120mm
fans, it will typically be the situation that they are
louder.  However, it is possible, even likely that a
mid-high grade or better system will need higher flow rate
than a very low RPM 92mm fan would provide.

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Has nothing to do with "rather".  A system is set up with
sufficient airflow to keep all components at reasonable
temp.  More airflow than that just creates excessive dust
buildup, wears out fans faster.   If a system doesn't need
two 120mm fans to achieve sufficient cooling, there's no
reason to put them both in... if a case has a mount for a
rear 120mm fan, sure, go ahead and use one but if it's a
small system with only moderate heat generation, there's no
need for a large (wide) case just to fit a 120mm fan in the
back, and most cases that use 120mm fan in the front are
rather crudely designed.

With all this talk of dual fans, surely you are cutting out
fan grills, you're not running two 120mm fans with their
intake or exhaust only going through small holes or slits
are you?  If you are, it suddenly becomes obvious why you
feel you "need" two 120mm fans, because you're not getting
even 1/3rd the free-air flow rate out of either of them.

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By you use of "dude" above, you've pretty much identified
yourself as fairly young.  I've build systems that were
still running fine a decade later, and I don't think you've
even been building systems for a decade.  I know whether
it's a problem to let a case get 5-10C over ambient temp or
not, and usually, it is not.

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You have not demonstrated that #2 is "a little hot".
Further, I did not suggest one 92mm fan was a universal
solution, not even that it was necessarily a "bad" thing to
use 2 x 120mm fans, BUT, usually there is no need, no
benefit, and only extra noise/wear/dust resulting from it.

You will not know what scenario results in "a little hot"
until you actually start doing more experimentation, and
more importantly, taking temps of actual parts.

Ultimately, you're trying to take a backwards approach to
cooling.  One does not wisely decide "I'll use 2 x 120mm
fans", rather than first considering the parts that will be
in the system, the desired chassis for the system, and the
upper limit on noise for the system.  Further there's the
knowledge of temp thresholds for parts and lifespan of the
system.  Having considered all these, it is not usually
necessary to use 2 x 120mm fans and when it is not, you gain
nothing by doing it.

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1)  Not all cases accept front 120mm fans.
2)  Adding another fan just for the sake of it is pointless.
3)  It IS louder... the front fan will be the most audible
part in a well-engineered (for low noise) system.  It will
NEVER be 0dB, you need to get your measurement methodology
checked or maybe the sound meter needs calibrated.

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Your entire post is incredulous.  It is so mixed up and
utterly wrong that I don't even care to spend the time to
wade through every point over and over again.

I am quite satisfied with the longevity of the systems I
build and they don't need 2 x 120mm fans.  While my
fileservers, which are not within earshot, do have several
fans for HDD cooling, they too are at very low RPM and I
suspect even quieter than your 2 x 120mm fan config.

All this is silly, so long as you are happy i guess you can
live in ignorant bliss.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

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Whatever dude.  It's plain English.  Common term in any industry where fans
are used.

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OMG.  Sometimes you are impossible.  I am NOT talking about OEM machines.
I'm talking about BUILDING YOUR OWN.  Yes OEMs can make systems with exhaust
only that work fine.  Typical workstations.  Very good!  Now go build your
own powerhouse with an exhaust only and watch me laugh as you burn it up.

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Uh yeah...more heat equals having to remove more heat.  Are you confused

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Well, you ignored my numbers before.  Maybe if you read them....  Anyway,
for those of us that live in the real world there absolutely can be a need
for it.  Obviously your experience is mute when it comes to high end
equipment.  Plus you ignore the surrounding area that a user might be in.
For example, my first house had no insulation.  So the computer room was on
average 80 degrees F.  So I had a mini A/C in my case with a decent blower
on it.  I was at about 58dB.  It just depends on the situation.  You seem to
rule everything out unless you lived it yourself.  Think OUTSIDE THE BOX.
Now on to some real high end equipment.  When I turn my Compaq/HP servers on
they sit at about 112dB then tone down to about 80dB.  That's on average
with NO overclocking.  Again, it just depends on the situation.

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May...whatever dude... you might enjoy limiting the life of your hardware
but some of us dont.  Either that are you really aren't used to high end.
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Was that methods with an "S"?  You are only for one method.  I have NO
PROBLEM using exhaust only for normal workstations.  100% of my machines at
work have exhaust only and I built them all.  These are just basic systems.
Excluding my system of course.  Then again what I do notice with my machines
is when I turn them off and open them up right away I can literally BURN my
hand on the hard drive.  Just one single drive burning away.  They can sure
take a lot of abuse but who knows what kind of degraded performance they're
giving.  They work good ENOUGH but maybe they can work better.

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Simple physics dude.  Go to school.

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You obviously don't get it.  Sorry, I can't explain it any better for you.

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Same terms I've always used.  Same terms I've always heard.  Same terms I
was taught in AIT.  Deal with it.

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Wow, again you completely missed the point.  YOU CAN NOT COMMENT ON THIS
you are going to continue to break down each sentence and ignore adjacent
comments then talking with you is pointless.

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See previous comment.

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COOLER COMPONENTS does NOT yield gain?  You are on crack.

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Lost noise...very good...that's the point.

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That's because you fucked it up by not applying it to the rest of the

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Hey, you kept NOT getting it so I had to keep dumming it up for you.  If it
got to basic for you then OH WELL

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Necessary? NO.  Possible with decent fan"s"? yes.  Possible with low noise?
Yes.  Better?  Yes.

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Now you are just assuming.  I said nothing about a few.  Try up to 10.  Once
again this is with MY components.  I'm not going to argue high end equipment
with you I think I proved my point with your dB comment and my servers.  You
comment in the extreme (saying NEVER) yet you generalize on the equipment.
That's a NO NO.

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That would tie in with my earlier comment.  Thanks for proving my point.

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This is where you are completely wrong.  You simply are not changing the air
enough.  My wife's system right now - Outside 24C, inside 25C.  I call that,
for the most part, equal.  YES it's off by 1 degree but so what.  My system
is way off but as I mentioned earlier I need better fans.

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I did.  Those are the numbers you missed.  Compare them with your numbers
then lets talk more

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That's your poor assumption.

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Again you assume.  You should really stop doing that.  Read A/C comment

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1. That your OPINION.  Noted.
2. Just because your temps are acceptable to you doesn't mean they are to
everyone else.  Plus you obviously run basic machines.  So discussing
anything high-end is kind of pointless.

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Around and around we go.  Then why do SO MANY machines burn up.  Even when
people are NOT overclocking?  MANY MANY of those cases where from poor
cooling.  Plus you never take into account the surround area.

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Again, high quality.  I have never used a thermaltake fan. I simply
mentioned I would TRY IT.  Gee what an idiot I am for trying something
new!!!  If I get it and it's shit I dump it.  As for fat enough?  You really
need to pay attention.  I was using fans on their MIDDLE setting.  Oh wait
that's right you comment on a per sentence basis.  You don't bother to read
everything first as that comment of mind is directly below.

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You busted me!  According to the manual the meter wont read below 5dB, it'll
just display 0..  Correction:
2. I sure can't hear it.

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It is true.  I've taken measurements on that EXACT same scenario.  I've made
existing cases quieter and cooler doing as such then proved it to the very
happy owner.

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Right and more, hotter equipment means more changing of the air.  This is so
simple!!!!  Add more equipment to what was sufficient and you must increase
your cooling to re-reach sufficient.

, wears out fans faster.
Bull!  I never proposed to run a fan past it's limit.  This is all normal

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No shit.  But if it's quieter then and OR keeps it cooler then WHY NOT?
Sorry, maybe dealing with high-end equipment most of my life has made me a
little too PROACTIVE.  You say WHY?  I say WHY NOT.

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Of course.  Who said you should get a bigger case just for that?  My example
above would be if 120's could fit.

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That's garbage.  But I'm sure you've used all cases.

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Cut out grill in the back and every 120mm case I've used has a very large
grill in the front.

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You base that on dude?  Good luck with that.  Oh and DITTO!  Although those
servers are on their last leg "software wise".

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Usually it's not.  But in a high end systems it's certainly something to
shoot for.  Your use of a machine, to me, seems rather passive.  You have
obviously never had a machine run away from you heat wise or have something
go wrong and have a component burn up on you where as if you had EXTRA
cooling in your case then maybe that component wouldn't have burned up.
Either way I speak in terms of a power user.  I push machines to their
limits.  I build granny machines, power machines, common workstations and
server level machines.  The full spectrum.  Machines built for home, more
often then not, then are going to be used for games.  Games = power.  More
cooling = better even if the reason isn't right in front of you face.  It's
not until you've seen just about everything happen that you start to put
certain equations together.  If all you do it work on business machines then
you are by far NOT equipped enough to handle most situations.

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OMG, you continue to assume.  The funny part is I already "combat" this
above in this response.

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You are too funny.  "Entire" post eh?  Your exaggerations don't become you.

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I'm sure your basic "run of the mill" machines are just fine.  I completely
concur that run fine with one fan.

  While my
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Now you are starting to look like the idiot David has made himself out to
be.  You have enough cooling for SEVERAL HDDs and it's quieter then (2)
120mm's?  So are you trying to sound stupid?  Even by your facts alone how
are MANY FANS quieter then (2) 120mm's?

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I live with a very fast machine that runs very cool and quit.  The only
ignorance is your lack of experience with high end equipment.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:54:51 -0800, "ISOHaven"

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No, it is most definitely NOT common, not a "term" and not
used in any industry relating to fans, AFAIK.  Please point
out even one use of this term by someone affliated with a
fan manufacturer.

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Did you think they sprinkled magic pixie dust on it to make
it work?  It's just engineered to do so, and the same CAN be
done by anyone.  The one (sometimes) hurdle is if you don't
have a suitable fan duct.  Fortunately I often fab my own
parts so I have no problem there, but it's not really a
problem for anyone, because the primary function of the duct
is to remove the CPU heatsink fan which most DIY builds will
still use, so no duct necessary.

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Not at all, but you acted as though it's a matter of some
"special" situation, when it's not.  We can ignore the
price, the "high-end(edness)" of them and everything else,
focusing only on the zones and needed dissipation of each.
Unless you have quite a few HDDs in the front, the need for
front fan is not there.  Rear fan exhaust IS sufficient flow
rate and plenty of systems demonstrate this clearly.

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Rarely in extremely well-endowed systems, yes, but not even
a typical high-end gaming system will "require" it, 'tis
more a matter of poor case than parts.

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 I've built systems for environments that were over 95F
every summer, like my Aunt's farmhouse, construction 'sites,
probably others that I simply don't know get that hot-
because they keep running therefore they don't get brought
back to me.

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I don't need to ponder these things, it is completely
unnecessary to add any kind of cooling that results in ~60dB
of noise.  I know it, can discount anything producing that
much as a poor choice.  Temperature is not a contest, you
win nothing for getting a system cooler than it needs to be.
It merely needs be "cool enough", which is not overheating.

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If you are forced to use an OEM server, sure, you leave it
the way it came.  That's entirely different as it is not
meant to be situated next to a worker, owner, etc while it's

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More like - you never tried it and just assume.
I actually measure temps, not "it seems there is a problem,
I"ll check on it" but rather "standard operating procedure,
system must be fit as built before deployed".

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The system was not set up properly if the hard drive gets
that hot.  It needs good exhaust (unobstructed) and the
majority of the intake _through_ the hard drive bay.  It's
quite simple and reproducible by anyone who doesn't have the
closed mind that you do.  Of course it requires a case that
has a complimentary design, but you accentuated the issue of
building it yourself so if you don't choose such a case and
then have to add more fans as a result of your choice, you
can only blame yourself.

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Perhaps it's beause it was made-up nonsense?
There are no fan concepts that can't be explained in plain

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Ok, NOW we're getting somewhere.

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There's nothing to deal with, they're simply not applicable
to fans and whatever you mean needs reworded to make sense.

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Why YES, I'll just snip out the rest and we're both done
here.  That was a good idea on your part!


Re: Noisy CPU fan

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You just aren't getting it.  To overpower something is it's own term.  You
can apply it to whatever you want.  Including fans.  Do your own damn
vocabulary lookup.

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Yeah, that's exactly what I think.  They sprinkle pixie dust on it.  OR
maybe what I think is the next comment you made "It's just engineered to do
so".  You seem to think the average home builder can do that.  You are

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NO!  I absolutely did not.  I acted exactly how I specified above.  More
heat = more removal.

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You have to this post FAILED to provide any real world data that proves
that.  I told you many messages ago to show me ONE high end system that has
ONE FAN only.  Neither you or that other idiot David has done that.  NOT ALL
SYSTEMS can have only ONE FAN.  HDDs is not the only factor for a front fan.
Even you said maybe with SLI.... so what now?  You take that back?  Now it's
only HDDs?  You are slowly discrediting yourself.

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Even my low end Compaq/HP server are louder then 60dB.  So then I guess
Compaq/HP designs poor product?  Again this is where your expertise goes
right out the window.

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Oh right...your AUNT'S HOUSE.  I'm sure she has a high end system right?
She does what?  Internet, email?  Maybe Word/Excel?  Once again a basic
system will only require one fan and that will good enough for "long long
time".  This merry-go-round is nauseous!

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MOST SERVERS RUN THAT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!  Again your expertise is null and void.
I grow tired of this same comment.  You know nothing of high end.  Period.

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BULLSHIT!  This is where you prove you have NO EXPERTISE when it comes to
anything over a simple workstation.  Plus you prove yourself a complete
LIAR!  You said in the past you have built servers with MANY FANS.  You are
trying to tell us your MANY FANS do not produce more then 60dB?  Bullshit!
Say what you want you are a damn liar.

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What the hell does that have to do with the fact that you claim no machine
should EVER be that loud?  Now you take it back?  Wishy washy.  That is very
weak.  Forced to use a OEM server?  That has to be the most ridiculous
comment you have made yet.  What exactly are you trying to imply with that
one?  Do you think for one second that you could build a machine that can
run 24/7 with no technical downtime that can handle an app such as.... SAP?
AND have an enterprise load on it?  Now who's the child?  ME KONY.... ME
MANUFACTURE.  You are a small time, small to mid size company employee with
a very narrow field of experience.  I've seen entire server farms wiped out
with just 3 or less "OEM" servers.  You keep building your little machines.
You enjoy that.

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Yup, here it is that SLI MAY need cooling.  I new it was around here

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No, I've fried components before.  That's how I've learned.  By DOING.  I've
learned from my mistakes.  You on the other hand don't build anything with
any real power thus you don't ever require heavy cooling.

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Close minded?  I tell you I opt for both solutions and that makes me close
minded?  You're a idiot!  The cases I use with my systems are common.  You
stick a fan on the back.  THERE IS NO SETTING UP PROPERLY.  The air enters
the front, over the drive and out the back.  Keeping them on 24/7 is a heavy
load for a multi-plattered SATA drive that itself requires additional
cooling.  But these cases don't take a front fan so they are what they are.

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Oh I see.  Well these workstation have a mainboard, cpu, memory and
sometimes a video card (instead of built on), HDD.  I'd have to say that's a
common setup.  So according to you EVERYONE NEEDS to use this "complimentary
design"?  Wow.  What an ego.  That is so utterly ridiculous I can't even go
any further with it.

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I don't need to add more fans.  So what is your point?

Obviously you ony want to hear certain things.  YOU ARE THE BEST SYSTEM

Re: Noisy CPU fan

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:54:41 -0800, "ISOHaven"


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As noted previously, we're wasting time arguing back and
forth on this.  My systems work fine as I described, and if
yours do too, everything is great.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

That about sums it up.

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Re: Noisy CPU fan

I would also like to disprove your more fans = more noise BS.  Take an Apple
Power MAC G5.  The unit has 7 fans.  4 of them are for the processor alone!
Of course it's also geared for two processors whether you have both or not.
All four fans run very slow yet push more air then your single 92mm and even
with the cover off the unit produces less noise then the average
workstation.  So in this case more fans = less noise and more CFM.

Oh but I forgot.  According to your equation that would make APPLE a crap
vendor that doesn't know what they are doing.  Because according to you
THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT and as we all know you are by far more superior
then the Apple development team.  After all Apples R&D is total crap.

In case you didn't already know, this is called being PROACTIVE!  Something
you know nothing about as even you claim you ONLY do what is necessary.
Which in itself is sad.  You claim all your machines work fine yet I have
strong feeling that you in fact have no clue as to the productivity level of
your machines.  But that's ok, if APPLE can learn so can you:

G3 - single fan - most common issue, over heating.
G4 - dual fan - over heating issues went away.
G5 - more power = more heat = more heat removal = MORE COOLING REQUIRED

A machine can be working fine "enough" yet still be overheating.  Just
because it turns on and runs Word doesn't mean it's running at full

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Re: Noisy CPU fan

ISOHaven writes:

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Four fans just for the processor??  Why?

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Apple can have good engineering, but they tend to favor aesthetics
over pure engineering considerations sometimes.

Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

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To make absolute sure thier customers do NOT have heating issues.  They have
geared this machine to run just about anywhere.  Even in the 120F desert.
Since this unit produces no more noise then any other machine then the whole
point I've been trying to make here is to turn your WHY into a WHY NOT.  The
only why not I can come up with is more equipment = more failure potential.
But these fans are such high quality I've never seen one go out.

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I was being a smart ass :)  However I agree.  Plus the new G5's HURT LIKE
HELL to carry with their hard lined edges.  I miss the G3/G4 plastic design!

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Re: Noisy CPU fan


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After installing 10.4.3, I was dismayed to find that it had sent my G5
(a first-generation Dual 2.0GHz model) into the land of eternally
cycling fans. Every few minutes, for seemingly no reason at all, the
fan noise would ramp to near-max for a few seconds, then spool back
down to idle. Watching with top, there was seemingly no cause for this
activity -- no process was sucking up the CPUs, and everything looked
completely normal. Needless to say, this was extremely irritating --
if you've ever heard a G5's fans at maximum speed, you know how loud
they can be. It was so annoying I was contemplating downgrading to
10.4.2, just to get things back to a quieter noise level.
I'm familiar using dual 2.0 or 2.3 in my school's labs. I have noticed
one signficantly annoying issue with my g5 since the day i got it.

If i boot up and launch itunes, my fans step up 1 notch, if i launch
anything else like photoshop cs2 for example, or a few widgets in
dashboard, the thing goes crazy, like airplane hanger loud, and it
does this every few min, silent, medium, ULTRA loud fans. I understand
that the cooling system might require this at times, but the fans in
the lab ones never get this loud unless I am pushing the machine to
much greater things. I'm suprised that it gets so loud under just
regular web browsing.

Is this normal? I've reset my PRAM and SMU, neither made a difference.

Should i shlep this thing down to the apple store to have a genius
listen to my complaint? or is this something everyone deals with??

Sometimes it just gets REALLY loud for a second, that scales back for
10 min, then up again. It's extremely distracting when doing work. /
f you look at the Apple discussion boards there seems to be some
concern about the Power Mac G5 on issues of noise,

Re: Noisy CPU fan

That's all very true.  Those fans CAN BE loud.  However those fans running
at full speed it enough to cool down 4 PentiumD's running at 5Ghz.  Yes, I
made that up but it shows that the fans in a G5 are extreme.  Also there are
4 just for the CPU.  Anything on max X 4 is going to be very loud.  Unless
it's speeding up all 7 fans then HOLY CRAP!

However the reality of the situation is, since there are 4 fans then they
should NEVER have to run at full speed.  These articles prove that Apple is
not perfect and makes mistakes in their OS.  Right away I would have blamed
the SMU however if an upgrade to Tiger caused the problem then he's having
an OS issue.  What these people are experiencing is not normal.  All of our
MACs have been upgraded to Tiger and we have never experience this issue.

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Re: Noisy CPU fan

That is easy enough to understand. You can have more fans doing the
same amount of work and producing less total noise.

Quiet conversation is quiet no matter how many people are doing it.
Decibel wise, it's not cumulative, at least not beyond a point. It's an
interesting principle that's come up in two or three discussions

Re: Noisy CPU fan

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:04:26 GMT, John Doe

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You are correct, but there are more issues at work.  IF
adding more fans allows reduction of fan speed, it may
result in lower noise as you wrote, BUT when using large
fans at a minimal RPM above the stall threshold (also above
that producing a ticking noise which varies per fan model),
one would only add the number of fans needed to cool the
system, rather than the goal a certain someone had of trying
to move as much air as possible through the system, rather
than only the amount needed to cool it to an acceptible

Thus, it may not, usually is not necessary to just continue
adding as many fans as free space on the wall of the case
would prermit.  I'm not suggesting you meant that, but
rather, some do aim for it, and taken by extension the
addition of fans could be seen as only limited by # of
mounts and/or ability of the case modifier to add more

A 2nd fan can often be only minimal noise increase, but when
the other fans are in the rear of the chassis what little
noise there was is typically less noticable to the user as
it has no direct path to the ear rather than being reflected
several times beforehand, while a front-mounted fan, or
possibly a side fan too (depending on environment) may
produce noise with a more direct path to the observer so
what little noise was produced was more easily perceived.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

"rather than the goal a certain someone had of trying to move as much air as
possible through the system, rather than only the amount needed to cool it
to an acceptible level."
I already restated, "as much as possible, within reason".  Try to keep up.
If cooler doesn't cost you anything then GO COOLER.  Once again it's called
being proactive.  If you got up to the point where adding 100 more CFM
gained you 1 degree cooler then what would be the point?  Don't be

"Thus, it may not, usually is not necessary to just continue adding as many
fans as free space on the wall of the case would prermit."
That would be the rediculous part.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:45:22 -0800, "ISOHaven"

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Yes and that is wrong.  The goal should be "as little as
possible, within reason", because there is a very real
perceptible increase in noise.  Your prior claim of 0dB is
simply wrong and easily shown so by anyone who has ever
taken noise measurements.

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It does cost, noise, cost, fan wear, dust accumulation.
In other words, beyond a certain point (cool _enough_) there
is no benefit, only detriment.

Re: Noisy CPU fan

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Very good, and I already proved the 0dB wrong.  You either don't read or are
not capable of keep up with the convo.  Your concept of "as little as
possible" is even MORE ANTI-PRODUCTIVE (reactive?) which for a common
workstation might be fine but it is absolutly not fine for anything with
real power.  In this case you are clearly BELOW the "just passing" line and
I am ABOVE that line.  More then people would rather be in my shoes.

"As little as possible within reason" is the same as saying you are going to
do just enough to barley get by.  That stinks.

Meter from top to bottom.  Highest being acceptable:

Area of reason
Me - My machine "as much"
Area of reason
A cool machine that runs "well"
Area of reason
kony - - His machine "as little as"
Area of reason

By stating as little as possible you clearly put yourself at the bottom of
the list.  Since I need to state things OVER AND OVER again because you miss
them....AGAIN, this is fine for common workstations.  I'm talking about
higher end machines.

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