choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monit...

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1. Would an anti-glare filter of 20 inch such as 3M EF200XXLB
Anti-Glare/Radiation Computer Filter, Black Frame
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Health/Safety/Products/Related/?PC_7_RJH9U52300A9E023IJD0GR3O74_nid=0GNNMZZJ6Rgs651JNCZ61CglNGM0L4CN7Qbl

be fine for the Dell XPS one or should I get a 21 inch or higher since
the XPS one has
speakers connected to the monitor(on its sides) which extend its size so
can cause issues when hooking up the 20inch filter to the screen?

A user wants a Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor to be connected to his
HP XW4600 workstation which has a NVIDIA Quadro FX 370 graphic card
http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/NV_DS_QFX_370_LowProfile.pdf
It is for a user in mid sixties. The link at
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors_Flat_Panel_Widescreen/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=320-9334&~ck=baynoteSearch&baynote_bnrank=2&baynote_irrank=0
mentions connectivity via VGA, DVI-D (HDCP) and HDMI.

2. Do I need to worry if the video card NVIDIA Quadro FX 370 has HDCP
keys or not as the datasheet at
http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/NV_DS_QFX_370_LowProfile.pdf
  does not mention it? Since it mentions VGA and DVI-D(HDCP), I estimate
this monitor should work with the xw 4600.

3. For the Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor would the 3M PF24.0W 3M
Widescreen LCD Privacy Filter 24 at
http://www.shop3m.com/98044050569.html be OK as an anti-glare filter?
I did not see any 24inch anti-glare filters at 3M for 24inch monitors so
picked this one The user(in mid sixties) needs a anti-glare filter for
his present 19 inch LCD monitor(HP L1950).

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

g wrote:
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http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Health/Safety/Products/Related/?PC_7_RJH9U52300A9E023IJD0GR3O74_nid=0GNNMZZJ6Rgs651JNCZ61CglNGM0L4CN7Qbl
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It's been a while since I've seen a filter like that, but I thought some of them
used "arms" on top of the monitor. It would be purely aesthetics to want to cover
the entire face with an equal sized item.

http://www.engadget.com/photos/dell-xps-one-a2010-specs-and-features-revealed/463792 /

And according to the Newegg pictures of that filter, you can see the hooks on
the top.
Even the Newegg pictures aren't perfect, because Newegg chose to use the
manufacturer
promotional pictures, instead of their usual, honest to God pictures.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/24-991-021-S01 ?$S640W$

Since the 3m.com product page says it also fits CRTs, then it likely has the
"long arms" as an option at installation time. If Newegg had used real pictures
of the package contents, that might have been more obvious.

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http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors_Flat_Panel_Widescreen/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=320-9334&~ck=baynoteSearch&baynote_bnrank=2&baynote_irrank=0
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Who actually manufactured the video card ?

When Nvidia offers a card with their branding on it, it is likely
contract manufactured by someone else. Nvidia tends to be "fabless",
meaning they live in an engineering building with no production facilities.

An example of a company that makes a lot of Quadro is pny.com . If the
card had a part number from such a company, you might trace the details
down that way.

The thing is, there was a point in time, where the GPU was "HDCP ready" but
the HDCP key ROM was missing. I don't really want to go out on a limb
and state it absolutely has it. It might not.

On cards with an actual HDMI connector on the faceplate, HDCP is supposed
to be mandatory now. But with DVI connectors, it's optional. Or at least,
it was optional in the past.

I think ATI got in a bit of trouble (class action ?) for stating that
their card was "HDCP ready", and then some of the manufacturers making
the cards, neglected to put HDCP keys on the card (so HDCP could not
negotiate).

If the card really is backed by the Nvidia name (in the documentation
in the box, there is an Nvidia phone number you can call for support),
maybe you can verify with them ? I don't know if there is a way you
can enumerate the card with some utility, to tell whether it has it
or not.

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In a quick check, it looks like 3M decided to do pure antiglare, for
things with 4:3 aspect ratio. Their privacy filters seem to be
their new focus, for wide screen (16:10 or 16:9) monitor devices.
But a privacy filter will also affect viewing angle. If the user
sits centered in front of their (filtered) screen, then there might
not be too much intensity loss.

That leaves some "off brand" products as alternatives, and some
of those have mixed reviews.

    Paul

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

On 4/1/2011 11:04 PM, Paul wrote:
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http://www.engadget.com/photos/dell-xps-one-a2010-specs-and-features-revealed/463792 /
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Thanks, that means if we get the 20 inch one we can hook it over the XPS
one.


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I don't know if I can find it without opening the tower.
But, should it matter since it states VGA so that option can be used for
connecting?

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Does that mean the the 3M PF24.0W 3M Widescreen LCD Privacy Filter 24
filter
might not reduce the glare?

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Can you please advise which might be those?
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Thank you for your advice and time.

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

g wrote:

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I can't be sure of anything, unless I can either find a downloadable
installation manual, or some real pictures of the product. So far,
all I know is it fits LCD and CRT, and a picture of the LCD mounting
shows short arms. Now, in the past, there would have been longer arms
near the top, for usage with a CRT.

Does 3M have pre-sales support ? If they can't be bothered to provide
product documentation (installation manual PDF), perhaps direct contact
with them is needed.

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The quality of the image from VGA, degrades at higher resolution. There
can be ghosting and reflections from the cabling. At lower resolutions,
you might find DVI/HDMI (digital) to be comparable to VGA. But as the
VGA analog resolution rises, in a comparison test you might find a
digital connection to be preferable. DVI and HDMI should be equal, because
its the same protocol (TMDS).

Some applications (movie playback of commercial titles) may require the
OS to set up a "protected video path" and I don't know all the details
of which OS, and what happens if PVP is not available. HDCP is a method
that supports encrypting the data stream between the computer and the
guts of the monitor. Even though the scheme has been cracked, the software
will still be configured to enforce it if the situation calls for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_Media_Path

What that article doesn't describe, is any form of user-verified testing
of such (i.e. as to whether ordinary usage of a computer is ever compromised
by the availability of a protected video path). If your setup supported
HDCP (say, HDCP over DVI), that might mean one less thing to worry about.


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It would reduce the glare, but it might impact the on-axis screen intensity.
And off-axis, since it is a privacy filter, it's going to block the image.
As the user moves their head from side to side, the intensity of the screen
could change. What a privacy filter is mainly intended for, is to reduce the
field of view.

If you buy an LCD monitor with S-IPS panel on it, the viewing angle is stated
as 178 degrees. Which means, if you sit way off to the side, there is
hardly any shift in visual characteristics. The viewing angle is quoted
at some level of attenuation. The cheaper monitors, the ones with TN panel,
might have a viewing angle of 170 degrees or so, and a noticeable color
shift as you move your head from side to side. Photoshop users don't want
a tight viewing angle, because it means they have to sit perfectly still
to maintain calibrated colors.

If you use a privacy filter, it's going to affect at least one viewing
axis of the monitor. I presume the privacy filter uses louvers to reduce
the horizontal viewing angle. If a user does Photoshop, they might get a
bit annoyed about that, and remove it.

An anti-glare filter, would not be implementing any privacy features,
so it won't be affecting viewing angle. Depending on how it is implemented,
it might decrease screen intensity, but most monitors have plenty of
adjustment range. (Any LCD I've used here, I have to turn it down when I
get it, because it's too bright.)

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The fact that these are 4:3 form factor, suggests someone is just
buying these from 3M and sticking their brand on them. If I could
find some of these in 16:9 or 16:10, then my conclusion would be
that someone else was manufacturing them besides 3M.

http://www.nextag.com/COMPUCESSORY/anti-glare/brand-html

Considering the lack of supply, I'd have to assume the technology is
covered by a patent, preventing someone in China from copying them :-)

    Paul

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

On 4/2/2011 6:41 PM, Paul wrote:
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I will contact them tomorrow.

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Currently that user is connected to a VGA port using a DVI adapter
something like

VGA port<->DVI adapter<->Wire from monitor

He does not face any image degradation now. He is a typical office user,
doing work in MS-Office, browsing the Web, watching some videos etc.

Can I assume it would be OK to overlook the DVI(HDCP part)?



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If you can clarify one thing, I would appreciate it. How much would the
3M filter PF24.0W reduce the glare? The user currently has a 3M PF400XLB
as his anti-glare(which is a anti-glare filter compared to the PF24.0W
which is a privacy filter) and is in his mid-sixties with glasses so
feels he needs one anti-glare filter for the 24inch monitor.

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No, they don't have Photoshop.


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Thanks, will look into them. I thought of getting from 3M since they are
reputed for anti-glare filters.

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Thanks a lot for your suggestions and time.

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

g wrote:

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You can ignore it, until you receive your next service request :-)

It's possible he will never run into a problem. If he inserts an HD
commercial movie, say on a Blu Ray disc, the movie player program
he uses may put up a status message, instead of playing the movie.

For many other things, it won't make a difference.

You'll have to "play it by ear" then, and deal with it as problems arise.

Your first test, will be the initial image quality over VGA. If it isn't
too blurry, you're mostly done.

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Start with the 3M catalog (this is the 2010 version). That should give you
a 3.2MB file named "2010ErgoCtlg_SnglePg_HiRez.pdf"

http://solutions.3m.com.hk/3MContentRetrievalAPI/BlobServlet?locale=en_US&lmd=1267124554000&assetId=1114301620000&assetType=MMM_Image&blobAttribute=ImageFile

The anti-glare filter (4:3 aspect ratio) is rated as 99% anti-glare. The
"privacy filter" type, available for wide screen monitors 16:10 or 16:9
is rated for 98%. So it is not quite as good. And the privacy screen
will affect the horizontal viewing angle. Note that some of those
products are "frameless", and I don't see any words describing what
holds them in place. If you look on the web site, they warn you
to measure the dimensions of the monitor *exactly*, implying
they fit into a recess in the screen. So if the LCD monitor has a
raised facia around the perimeter of the monitor, that is what holds
the frameless privacy filter in place. (The other thing we were looking
at before, uses hooks, so you can be more sloppy on dimensions with
that one. As long as it isn't so tall it hits the desktop, the hook
kind just hangs down.)

LCD monitors come with the two finishes on the face. You can buy LCD monitors
with a "matte" finish, which is intended as a glare solution. Or you
can buy monitors with a "crystal" or "glass" finish, which doesn't make
the image as fuzzy as matte does. For older users, under the right
lighting conditions, a "crystal" finish can be superior, because it
offers less parallax effects to text characters. ("Matte" looks like
you're looking through two layers of material.)

When installing monitors, and choosing the finish type, you look at the
local lighting conditions. For example, if I was in a location with lots
of overhead fluorescent or high pressure lighting, there would be multiple
reflections of lights coming off the monitor. I might go for a matte finish
in that case (although I might have to compromise on that, if some
other feature was more important to have). If the lighting is
more controlled, the older gentleman is in a private office, a desk lamp
can be strategically placed for lighting so the bulb doesn't bounce
off the screen, that might allow a monitor with a "crystal" finish.
Right now, I'm using a monitor with a "crystal" finish, and I have overhead
incandescent lighting, and I see no reflection at all from that.

A manufacturer could always try to add an AR coating to the exterior
of a "crystal" finish monitor, but the problem with AR coatings in
general, is they can be attacked by common household cleaners
(things like ammonia). In my life, I've ruined a couple monitor faces,
by cleaning them with ammonia based cleansers.

This web page, was prepared by someone who contacted various tech supports
at the LCD manufacturers, and got their advice. Some tech supports weren't
prepared for the question, while others had at least some advice to offer.
My "crystal" finish monitor can be cleaned with Windex, because it is
plain glass on the outside. My monitor is "sneeze proof" because cleanup
is a breeze.

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20080323142011/http://www.carlwebster.com/LCDCleaning.htm

    "The following cleaners are acceptable:

        * Water
        * IPA (Isoprophyl Alcohol)
        * Hexane                        <--- exposure limits ???
        * Petroleum Benzine             <--- carcinogen ?

     The following cleaners are unacceptable:

        * Acetone
        * Ethyl alcohol
        * Toluene
        * Ethyl acid
        * Ammonia             <--- Why Windex might not be appropriate...
        * Methyl chloride"

HTH,
      Paul

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

On 4/3/2011 9:54 PM, Paul wrote:
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I don't know if can play a Blu-Ray disc. He has only a DVD writer
   LCD monitors come with the two finishes on the face. You can buy LCD
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Thanks, instead of getting a anti-glare filter how about using a matte
screen protector such as
http://www.viewguard.com/en-us/24.0%22-Widescreen/24.0%22-Widescreen-ViewGuard-Anti...Glare-Matte-Screen-Protector-%28Width-20.37%22-x-Height-12.74%22-16:10-Aspect-Ratio%29

They appear to be a low cost option. Can you please offer some advice on it?

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http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20080323142011/http://www.carlwebster.com/LCDCleaning.htm
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Thanks a lot. That is very helpful. We use only water as a cleaner. We
use a damp cloth and wipe the screens

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

g wrote:

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http://www.viewguard.com/en-us/24.0%22-Widescreen/24.0%22-Widescreen-ViewGuard-Anti...Glare-Matte-Screen-Protector-%28Width-20.37%22-x-Height-12.74%22-16:10-Aspect-Ratio%29

It looks to be frameless, and has exact dimensions listed. So it probably
fits within the recessed area of the screen. (My monitor has no recess,
so I'd need a product with a frame, or some other attachment method like
an adhesive.)

It's $44, so that's a relief.

There is a picture of a similar product here, so you can see what
it looks like under reflective light conditions. You should be
able to make up your mind, by looking at the pictures.

http://www.photodon.com/c/LCD-Protective-Films.html#photocompare

    Paul

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

Paul wrote:
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That's what I get for being in a rush.

It appears to attach via an adhesive on one side.

    "Silicone resin adhesion - No residue from glue or paste"

I don't know whether that is a good thing or not. Maybe it
doubles as "fly paper" when you're finished with it :-)

    Paul

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

On 4/5/2011 10:54 AM, Paul wrote:
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So, if we get it we would need a silicone resin adhesion(we don't have
that so need to buy that) to glue it with the monitor or some regular
tape would do?

More important would it function as a anti-glare filter at a low cost
or does it have caveats which means getting a anti-glare filter would be
better in the long run for the monitor?

Thanks for your advice and time.

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

g wrote:
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Did you look at the picture ? The monitor on the left, has the film applied.

http://www.photodon.com/MXFilmOniMacCompare05-250.jpg

When viewed looking straight into the monitor, you don't see the film then.
So if you're sitting right in front of the monitor, and not off to the side,
it doesn't seem to be affecting the image.

http://www.photodon.com/MXFilmOniMacCompare02-250.jpg

When you buy the $44 item, it comes with a peel-off protective sheet
on the back. Under the protective sheet, is a slightly-adhesive layer.
That is what holds the film in place. So the adhesive is pre applied
and ready to go. There is nothing else to buy.

I make fun of it, because so many adhesives start off with the
grand objective of leaving no residue, but few live up to their
billing. On the short term, a lot of adhesives function as they
should. But left in place long enough, attacked by UV light or ozone,
can change the composition and result in a residue.

So the question for you is, go back and look at the first picture
again. Would your user accept a monitor, with that kind of finish
on the outside ?

It's too bad 3M doesn't sell a kit, with a big piece of anti-glare in
it, some hook arms, and leave it to the user to cut it to size. The
nice thing about a solution that hangs from the monitor, is it is
easy to remove on a moment's notice.

I wonder if you went to a plastics store, whether they would sell
a product like that (something that can be cut to size). We have
at least one store here, that stocks all kinds of plastic products.
Everything st that place is expensive, so it's not really a good
place for hobbyists or home projects. (On the other hand, if I
go to a glass shop, I can still afford window glass :-) )

    Paul

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

On 4/6/2011 9:59 AM, Paul wrote:
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Thanks for clarifying. The user is not picky about the finish on the
outside as long as there is no residue on the monitor. He just needs
proper anti-glare. So, if the film can function as well as an anti-glare
filter from 3M, then it is cost effective.

Thanks for your advice and time.

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

g wrote:

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http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Health/Safety/Products/Related/?PC_7_RJH9U52300A9E023IJD0GR3O74_nid=0GNNMZZJ6Rgs651JNCZ61CglNGM0L4CN7Qbl
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Why would you think an anti-radiation screen is needed for an LCD
monitor?

Does the user (since it appears it isn't you) actually want to reduce
glare?  LCD monitors are flat (opposed to convex for CRTs that picked up
light from a wider angle) and have a comparatively low reflectivity so
they don't have nearly as much glare (as did glossy surfaced CRTs).  Do
you (or the actual user) really see themself in the monitor as they are
using it?  Are they shifting in their chair to look at parts of the
screen due to glare?  Is there an outside window behind the user and no
blinds to close?  Were lights improperly positioned behind the user (to
reflect in the monitor) as opposed to placing them in behind the monitor
(to constrict the pupils so the user isn't staring at a super bright
screen with dialated pupils?  Lights should be on the backside of the
monitor (your eyes, monitor, then light source).  I don't like looking
at the bulb in an [unshaded] lamp so I have a flex arm light that I
point up towards the white ceiling to give me indirect lighting but it
definitely helps from seeing too bright a monitor when in an otherwise
dark room.

Users adding an anti-glare filter to an LCD monitor often do so to
reduce the intensity of the light coming from it.  They're in too dark a
room or the light sources are mispositioned.  The filter darkens the
bright screen to reduce eye strain (but a brighter room would also
reduce strain of looking at a bright monitor).  Alternatively, just turn
down the brightness of the monitor.  Use the monitor's own brightness
and contrast controls.  

Another helpful adjustment is to change the "color temperature" of the
monitor moving down from, say, 9700 which is a bright or cold blue
downward to, say, 6300 which is more red/yellow colored.  The difference
is like being in an office with fluorescents that are cold blue and then
switching to the warm light tubes to make it more cozy and easier on the
eyes.  In fact, many LCD monitors have color modes that are predefined
(movie, theatre, gaming, standard, normal) that you can switch between
to see which one you like best. These are presets but often you can also
pick your own colors.

Has the user even bothered trying to angle the monitor downward?  It
only takes a slight angle off from the line-of-sight between monitor and
eyes to eliminate reflections.  LCD monitors don't have much adjustment,
especially down, so a very short person won't find tilting down a
monitor to be of any help and tilting it up points it at the ceiling
lights to reflect in the monitor.

I'm not saying an anti-glare filter won't help viewing the monitor and
reduce eye strain.  I'm saying there are LOTS of things you can do
before tossing money at an external solution.

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One topic per thread.  That's all I handle now.  When a user asks
multiple questions, responses and the subthreads can turn into a mess.

Re: choosing size of anti-glare filter for a Dell XPS one and Dell ST2420L 24" W Full HD Monitor

On 4/2/2011 5:08 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
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Yes, he is in his late twenties(but already has glasses)


LCD monitors are flat (opposed to convex for CRTs that picked up
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No

Is there an outside window behind the user and no
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There are three windows behind the user, but there are also blinds to
close it.

Were lights improperly positioned behind the user (to
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No

  Lights should be on the backside of the
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Did that before some time, still the user claims it is not enough.

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Will try that on Monday.

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He is a bit short in height.
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I understand, thanks for your suggestions and time. I estimate the user
is more sensitive due to his glasses and three windows.

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I thought of combining them so that respondents need not go to different
threads to answer a related question from the same poster.

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