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Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Don Burnette wrote:

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You have a very good power supply. Why buy another one?

Another person just posted about an adaptor for the 20 to 24-pin
connectors. That sounds like a better idea than buying a whole new

Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Bill wrote:
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Well, I guess the only reason would be as an attempt to get rid of my
locking up problems. It does not lock up now as much as it did, since
disabling the cpu spread spectrum, but it still does occasionally. It has
now gone a couple of days without a lockup. And there are no error or
warning messages in event viewer pointing to the cause...
It appears some believe, with it just being the 20 pin connector plugged
into the mb, that it could be underpowered? If indeed that is the cause, I
am not sure just getting an adaptor would do the trick.

But, according to the MSI K8N Neo4 Plat mb manual, using just the 20 pin
connector should be fine.

Ironically, it has not locked up yet while playing a 3d game, only when
browsing the internet or reading newsgroups, but that is what I do the
majority of the time.

Don Burnette

Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Hey guy's I'm not sure what the problem is but I can assure you that it is
not the power connector.

We are going to start looking at other componants and software (drivers and

Have you tried running Msinfo32 (system information) and looking for trouble

Or for that matter looking in device manager for any problems?

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Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Yes, no trouble spots.

I am going on about 3 days now without it happening, keeping fingers
crossed.. I have to go out of town however today for a couple of days.

If it happens again, I may see about updating the bios and mb drivers. I am
running the bios which came with the board, 1.0 a I believe, and the
motherboard drivers that came on the MSI install cd.

Thanks all,


don wrote:
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Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Well, got back in from out of town this evening, booted up the computer, and
was reading emails and newsgroups, and blammo, locked up again.  Once again,
no warning or errors in event viewer.

Ok, since I am using the motherboard drivers I installed off the MSI cd that
came with this board, my next step is I am going to search for updated
drivers and install if any, and update my bios if an update is available,
and see if that does any good.
Btw, is there any advantage to getting the motherboard drivers say from
Nvidia rather than MSI?



Don Burnette wrote:
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Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Don Burnette wrote:
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Please don't top-post, and please do snip.

Sounds to me more as if you have snaky hardware, possibly a
marginal memory chip (unless you have ECC, which would eliminate
that possibility) or a cold soldered joint on the MB, or a marginal
socket connection.  You can try removing, inspecting contacts, and
reseating to (possibly) handle the sockets.  A replacement
identical MB, without memory or cpu, would probably not be

Bad connections are likely to be affected by temperature.  You can
try spraying refrigerant, or heating with a hair dryer, and see if
things become worse.

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on
 "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
 "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/
Also see <http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/

Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:46:56 -0600, "Don Burnette"

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Yes, nothing from MSI should ever be installed unless MSI is
the only source for (whatever).  The original drivers should
not be installed, nor newer ones from MSI.  This minimizes
(or eliminates) any residual driver residue on the OS
installation and ensures the newest driver possible is used.

There are rare exceptions, but those are noteworthy (noted
and can be found via google search).  Generally these are
not even worth considering until after the newer nVidia
driver is used and it is found that some function isn't
supported (yet), at which point the supplimental driver is
added.  Usually one isn't needed.

You might check MSI's site for bios updates/related notes to
see if anything seemingly relevant has been patched on newer
bios versions.

MSI may also have the easiest (to set correctly or use, I
can't be sure of it since I don't have your board here)
hardware monitoring software.  Try to keep an eye on the
temperatures and voltages to see if there's any correlation
between them changing and the problem.

Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

kony wrote:
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Will do, thanks Kony. The only thing I have noticed, is the 3.3v shows
outputting 3.10 volts, don't know if that would be related or not. I do have
an adjustment for that on the front panel that connects to the power supply,
but I have not messed with adjusting it yet.

I will uninstall the MSI drivers and install the latest Nvidia drivers
sometime this weekend. There is one updated bios out there, but I think the
only thing it corrects is how it reports on something, but I will probably
go ahead and update to it as well. I have only used liveupdate to update the
bios once, on a previous mb, it worked fine but I am always leery of doing
it ( don't have a floppy on this system).

I loaded the optimized defaults for the bios yesterday, in preperation for
possibly updating the bios. Ya know, I am not sure, I ever really loaded the
optimized defaults when I first assembled this system, heck that may help in

My temps are fine, idles pretty constant around 34c, and under load around


Don Burnette

Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

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If this is a TrueControl power supply, you should put the adjustment
device in place. Apparently the power supply will run on the low
side, with the adjustment device disconnected. That could account
for a 3.10 reading on the 3.3V supply. I would adjust the knobs
while using a voltmeter to verify them. You may be able to touch
the metal of the pin within the 20 pin connector, while it is
connected to the motherboard. Clip the ground of your voltmeter
to a safe place, like an I/O screw on the back of the computer,
so it won't fall into the computer. Then, you'll only need
one hand to probe the backside of the 20 pin connector. A
Molex drive connector gives access to +5V and +12V, but the
main 20 pin will be needed to get at a +3.3V pin.

While it would be fun to trust the hardware monitor chip on the
motherboard, for these voltage readings, the hardware monitor
seldom seems to be correct. You will occasionally see reports
where someone checks their outputs with a voltmeter, only to
find the power supply has virtually "perfect" outputs, while
the monitor chip is reading some other values. So, with the
adjustment plate in place, using a voltmeter is the best way
to set it up.

The adjustment is probably not critical to system operation,
and if you just set the rail adjustments to their "middle"
value, that could very well be good enough. Using the
voltmeter is for the peace of mind knowing it is set up

The only thing I've heard of, that becomes unstable with
a low 3.3V, is some older ATI AIW video cards. Some users
of those have noted in the past, that if 3.3V was low,
there was reduced stability.


Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

On the driver issue there are pros and cons of each.

First the drivers included on the MSI CD are written by the hardware mfg
(i.e..Nvidia). they are customized to the hardware that is installed on the
MB and may have features not always supported by the generic drivers.
However I have not often seen either versions of the drivers cause problems.

On the other hand the support offered to the MB mfgs is more limited than
what is offered to comparable stand alone products. This means that if your
MB is more than a year or two old (from production date, not from when you
bought it) then the drivers from the component mfg. will most likely be the
most bug free.

As for someone's comment that you should never use the drivers from the MB
manufacturer, that is ludicrous, I have set up thousands of machines and I
always use the MB drivers that come on the included CD and have yet to have
a serious problem.

And By the way Top Posting makes more sense then having to read every post
over and over and over again to get to the comment on the thread. If I want
to read more I will.

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Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?


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Don't be ridiculous.  Fact is, the OEM drivers are older
versions of the drivers that are released in newer versions
for the very reason that there is benefit.

You have not set up thousands of machines and tested them
against the myriad problems possible.  Maybe you installed
the driver, woohoo, that is not even close to knowing what
problems there might be- and maybe you even tested or used
one or more such systems extensively, but it cannot mean you
then have more knowledge than this one static platform in
the particular use.  In short, you're just plain wrong.
Millions of experienced users have know for a long time that
installing the oldest driver from the manufacturer is most
likely to be problematic.  Perhaps blissfull ignorance is a
better way to put it.

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Then snip out the irrelevant portions at least.

Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Could also be a driver problem. Before spending tons of money, make sure
your bios is flashed to the most recent version and use the latest
motherboard drivers. Also make sure your using the most recent drivers for
your vid card and sound card too.

XP2600@171 fsb@1.65Volts
PC3200 Samsung 512mb,  SB Live OEM
AIW9600XT, A7N8X-X
WD120gb + 80gb HD 8mb buffers
Plextor PX-712A, Liteon 1693S 16X Dual Layer
Pioneer DVR-110D 16X - 4X Dual Layer
Thermaltake Lanfire, 420 Watt PS
ViewSonic 19" A91f+ CRT
Micrsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick

Overall Score-2066, cpu_score-2926
in 3DMark2005 basic 1078X768, No AA

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Re: 24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

Ok, still having stability issues on my new build:

MSI K8N Neo4 Plat
Athlon X2 4400+
2 ea 250 gb WD Sata hard drives
ATI X850XT PCIe video card
Audigy2 ZS soundcard
2gb Corsair XMS LL pc3500 ( 2ea x 1gb), running in dual channel
Windows XP Sp2 completely updated

I updated the mb drivers with the latest from the Nvidia website about a
week ago.
I disabled cpu spread spectrum
I am running at optimized defaults, no overclocking as of yet.

My system locks up every few days, usually when using Outlook or Outlook
Express. I have yet to have it lock up while gaming, however, I only game a
couple hours a week at most. Most of my time is spent emailing and reading

I get no error or warning messages in event viewer whatsoever. Just a lock
up, nothing works, not evening ctrl-alt-del, I have to power down by holding
the power switch in a few seconds, then restart, and it is fine.

I have the Nvidia ide sw drivers installed with the motherboard drivers,
wonder if this could be the problem, wonder if it would be worth
uninstalling the mb driver and re-installing and not installing the Nvidia
ide sw drivers?

I am also tempted to go ahead and order a new power supply that has the
extra 4 pin connector that goes on the end of the 20 pin connector just in

Don Burnette

VanShania wrote:
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