Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone? - Page 3

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Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



David H. Lipman wrote:
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or even IroK ;-)

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




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He covered that already when he mentioned prependers.. Doh!


--
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike
your Christ."  - author unknown.

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



FromTheRafters wrote:
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I would tend to refer to worms as 'self propagators'
which might or might not carry a viral payload.
But generally anything that has to use such techniques to spread
is probably malware, otherwise provide a description and/or eula for the happy
clickers.

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Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




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Viral payload?

You can have a virus with no *payload* at all (although that would be
pretty rare).

Viruses, worms, and rabbits are all self-propagating (I use the term
self-distributing - it illustrates the difference between them and
malware that "gets distributed" by a website for instance) and
self-replicating. Rabbits fail to leave the parent viable, worms fail to
infect programs with a possibly evolved copy of themselves - both of
these items are requirements for a modern virus.

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Another way to look at this is that viral activity is a
self-distribution enhancement to something that is already otherwise
malware. If it self-distributed something desireable, it would probably
not be considered malware.

[...]



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 8/4/2010 2:40 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:
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       They call it that because it's quite common to refer to
all malware as viurses. Been this way for decades.


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      It's all a matter of who you're talking to. If the person
wants to nitpick even though they know what a person means then
what can you do but explain. I've worked for people who are very
computer savvy and people who are new to computers. I use all
the terms to describe the problem and rarely hear anyone nitpick
about using the word "virus" to describe a trojan or worm. It's
just acceptable.

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         It seems to anger you on some level. I don't care in
the least what they call it, as long as it does the job.

John

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




| On 8/4/2010 2:40 PM, FromTheRafters wrote:

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|        They call it that because it's quite common to refer to
| all malware as viurses. Been this way for decades.



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|       It's all a matter of who you're talking to. If the person
| wants to nitpick even though they know what a person means then
| what can you do but explain. I've worked for people who are very
| computer savvy and people who are new to computers. I use all
| the terms to describe the problem and rarely hear anyone nitpick
| about using the word "virus" to describe a trojan or worm. It's
| just acceptable.

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|          It seems to anger you on some level. I don't care in
| the least what they call it, as long as it does the job.

I'm sorry, just because the "average" person calls all malware a "virus" does
not make it
correct and if you insist on following this train of thought, please do NOT call
yourself
a "professional."


--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 05/08/2010 17:23, David H. Lipman wrote:
[...]
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Yeah, well,context rules. No matter how carefully people use terminology
in their professional lives, words will escape into the wild, and then
all bets are off.

It's context that determines a word's meaning. In every-day usage,
"anti-virus" has come to mean what "anti-malware" means in a
professional context. That's just the way it is. The first rule of
communication is "Adapt to your audience."

cheers,
wolf k.

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




| On 05/08/2010 17:23, David H. Lipman wrote:
| [...]
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| Yeah, well,context rules. No matter how carefully people use terminology
| in their professional lives, words will escape into the wild, and then
| all bets are off.

| It's context that determines a word's meaning. In every-day usage,
| "anti-virus" has come to mean what "anti-malware" means in a
| professional context. That's just the way it is. The first rule of
| communication is "Adapt to your audience."

You can't call all malware a virus just beciuse you use anti virus software.  It
doesn't
work that way and is a miconception and misnomer.

If a majority of people have a misperception of a concept, their majority does
not change
the concept.


--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 05/08/2010 17:42, David H. Lipman wrote:
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Quite true, but I'm not talking about the concept, I'm talking about
words. Words refer. What they refer to is governed by context.

One of the most difficult things for professionals to accept is that
their professional context is, well, limited. Most people aren't
professionals, but that doesn't stop them from borrowing professional
terms. And of course when they borrow, they change the referents of the
terms. You can scold all you like about misperceptions (and I do
sympathise, believe me), but the fact is that the terms "anti-virus" and
"virus" applied to computers have become generalised in common usage.

Fact is that it happens in all professions. Professionals develop
special and precise terminology, their work impinges on the rest of us,
and we borrow their terms. And immediately fudge, fuzz, and often
thoroughly misunderstand the concepts. Most of the time, it makes no
practical difference.

FWIW, my teeth grate when I hear people use "substitute" for "replace",
or "reticent" for "hesitant", or - well, you get the idea. I hope. ;-)

Can I stop people form misusing these words. 'Course not.

wolf k.

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?






| Quite true, but I'm not talking about the concept, I'm talking about
| words. Words refer. What they refer to is governed by context.

| One of the most difficult things for professionals to accept is that
| their professional context is, well, limited. Most people aren't
| professionals, but that doesn't stop them from borrowing professional
| terms. And of course when they borrow, they change the referents of the
| terms. You can scold all you like about misperceptions (and I do
| sympathise, believe me), but the fact is that the terms "anti-virus" and
| "virus" applied to computers have become generalised in common usage.

| Fact is that it happens in all professions. Professionals develop
| special and precise terminology, their work impinges on the rest of us,
| and we borrow their terms. And immediately fudge, fuzz, and often
| thoroughly misunderstand the concepts. Most of the time, it makes no
| practical difference.

| FWIW, my teeth grate when I hear people use "substitute" for "replace",
| or "reticent" for "hesitant", or - well, you get the idea. I hope. ;-)

| Can I stop people form misusing these words. 'Course not.

True, however one must not lose the opportunity to educate.  If you don't, well
you have
given them reason to continue.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 8/5/2010 2:42 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
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      Actually because a great number of people use a phrase for
something other than it's initial meaning, a word's meaning can
change. Much of the English language has been formed this way.
Look at the word "cool" it means more than just the temperature.
In fact some things that are really "hot" these days can also be
"cool".

John


Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




| On 8/5/2010 2:42 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:

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|       Actually because a great number of people use a phrase for
| something other than it's initial meaning, a word's meaning can
| change. Much of the English language has been formed this way.
| Look at the word "cool" it means more than just the temperature.
| In fact some things that are really "hot" these days can also be
| "cool".

Jargon and coloquial speech is not proper English and is only for very informal
converstations.  Never on technical discussions.



--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 06/08/2010 16:51, David H. Lipman wrote:
[...]
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For every context there is a proper register (that's a technical term).
You violate it at your peril. But be careful: just because you're among
truckers doesn't mean you can talk like one. That is, truckers among
themselves is one context, truckers with you present is another.

"Good communicators" are skilled at adapting their speech and writing to
the context.

cheers,
wolf k.

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




| On 06/08/2010 16:51, David H. Lipman wrote:
| [...]
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| For every context there is a proper register (that's a technical term).
| You violate it at your peril. But be careful: just because you're among
| truckers doesn't mean you can talk like one. That is, truckers among
| themselves is one context, truckers with you present is another.

| "Good communicators" are skilled at adapting their speech and writing to
| the context.

I'll drink to that !


--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 06/08/2010 18:20, David H. Lipman wrote:
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A single malt and water, please.

;-)

wolf k.

Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?




| On 06/08/2010 18:20, David H. Lipman wrote:

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| A single malt and water, please.

| ;-)

Hold the water for me please.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



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That's true, and it is worth mentioning to people when they misuse
terminology. It is not really worthwhile to *insist* that the masses use
terms correctly.

...but a professional should be professional.

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I do, and the average Joe may or may not even cause me to just mention
that there *is* a difference. A professional should be more receptive to
gaining knowledge.



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



On 8/5/2010 2:33 PM, Wolf K wrote:
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      I could not have said it better myself.

John


Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



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Being wrong is quite common also.

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I don't usually bother to correct non-professionals, although I do
mention that they are in error when they call non-replicators viruses.
In your case, being a "professional" you should know better. That you
refuse to accept the facts is just your personality getting in the way
of your professionalism.

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Not really, it angers me when they call viruses malware - but that's
another story that you would not be interested in.

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What job?

If you use an antimalware application to remove viruses, you can be
giving a still infested machine back to your customer. I know that you
don't care, and it is alright with me if you insist on continuing to be
wrong, but calling yourself a professional is over the top.

I won't bother to help you to understand the importance of the
difference anymore since you refuse to learn.



Re: Win32/RAMNIT.A Anyone?



@newsfe21.iad:

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The only people who think virus is a generic term are the ones who don't
know any better and wouldn't be considered professional in my book.

The reason virus isn't a generic term is because it describes a very
specific function and requirement of the software to be called a virus.

It's obvious to me atleast that you are someone who fixes computers and
you might even do a good job of it, but you aren't deserving of the title
professional. I do respect the knowledge you do have, but at this time, I
wouldn't agree with your self assessment.


--
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike
your Christ."  - author unknown.

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