The infamous email shuffle words virus or something - Page 5

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Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

wrote:

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It could be useful if it wasn't your own box.  It lets you test the AV
setup on any box you're using.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

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I don't count 11 ASCII characters.  At best, I count about 7 (e.g,
"0x454c4946" presumably is some ASCII character).  then again, none of
these characters repeat, so "HELLO", which has two L's, is not
present.

So the program is a bust.

RL

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sun, 22 May 2011 23:59:14 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99


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    LOL
    That's not the Hello program, it's the eicar virus test
program.
 http://archive.cert.uni-stuttgart.de/bugtraq/2003/06/msg00251.html
    []'s
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    The first one he posted was the Hello program.
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Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

RayLopez99 wrote:
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What I meant by 'a hello world program' is a program that simply outputs
a text string to the console.

You are correct in that the string "Hello world!" is not present. the
string in this program is "EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE" instead
of "Hello world!".

http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/eicar/eicarcom.html

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

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Said the resident idiot.

Now below is what a famous website says.  Who is right?  My money is
on the famous website.

RL

http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/eicar/eicarcom.html

Most programmers today rarely if ever deal with the kind of details
presented in this tutorial. We wrote this page so students and even
the average PC user could appreciate both the complexity involved in
running a very simple program and early programmers of the past.
Programmers today normally use high-level macro instructions and
libraries of pre-assembled code. A single statement in these high-
level languages often produces the equivalent of dozens to even pages
full of assembly instructions compared to the few we'll be examining
here.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

f52aab725615@q32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:

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resident idiot? Who might that be? Didn't google me eh? ;p
 
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Right about what specifically? If you can't read/write/understand
assembler you are not going to be able to develop the same stuff I can,
period. doesn't matter what language(s) you choose to use. I'll always
outcode you. The reason for it is simple. It's that I know how the
hardware is working and you are dependant on whatever functions are
present in your language of choice.


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:38:11 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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You don't get it!  We very rarely *WRITE* it these days but we
certainly do read it on occasion.  Memory access breakpoints are prone
to bringing up the CPU window when they fire.  These are invaluable if
you're hunting a memory stomp.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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No, you don't get it.  If you read this thread carefully, as I did,
you'll see that Dustin's position is different from yours.  I actually
agree with you--reading ASM is fine (though frankly I find it of no
use--I've always found a workaround without getting into assembly, but
then again I don't code professionally).  But Dustin claims you have
to write ASM, specifically, "Right about what specifically? If you
can't read/write/understand assembler you are not going to be able to
develop the same stuff I can, period. doesn't matter what language(s)
you choose to use. I'll always outcode you. The reason for it is
simple. It's that I know how the hardware is working and you are
dependant on whatever functions are present in your language of
choice. "

That statement by Dustin is pretty extreme, we all can agree, unless
he wants to claim that the "/" in his "read/write/understand" means
"OR".  Or unless he claims he writes software drives for graphics
cards. Or if he is claiming "outcode you" means he can do more than me
in a higher level language, which tautologically is true since he
knows assembler and I don't, but that does not make him a more capable
programmer in general.

RL

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

9e899778d427@28g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:

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Ray,

I can read AND write assembler. That makes me a coder, slightly more
advanced than your typical run of the mill, ehh, programmer. There is a
difference and it's already been explained to you.

Programmers are limited in ways that coders aren't. You see no use for
it, and that's fine, but I'm not likely to see you replacing me anytime
soon either. [g]

For the most part, I use assembler skills to disect malware executables.
Can you do that, Ray?


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

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I don't recall such a distinction.  So you concede then that
programmers, rather than coders, don't need to know ASM.  Concession
noted.  I win that point.

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No.  I rely on my AV suite and firewall to catch and block malware.

RL


Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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You should re-read some posts then. A programmer is close to a coder,
but lacks the get down dirty in the mud have an intimate discussion
with the hardware skills. Coders *are* very much programmers, but not
all programmers are coders. I don't see what concession you feel I've
made or what point? you're declaring victory on. I didn't make the
mistake of calling you an ass clown before I got to know what your
skillset is. You did that.

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Well, alas, I don't. :) If you want to see something old school I
wrote, you can view this:

http://bughunter.it-mate.co.uk

That program got me a job for (2 years or so) with malwarebytes. Do you
know I essentially did while there? Disected harmful software and wrote
definitions to detect and remove them. I told you from the getgo, you
didn't want to compare skills with me. I'm not God mind you, but I'm
not you either. [g]


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Tue, 24 May 2011 14:10:10 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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Fine for the average person but someone has to write that AV code.

Someone also has to write the compilers that produce machine code
output.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

wrote:

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Given his last reply I'm leaning towards his position now.

These days *WRITING* assembler is a specialty skill that most
programmers will never need.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Hence the difference between your programmers and the rest of us. :)


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

wrote:

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Whatever you call them, writing assembly is now a specialized skill
that few people will ever need.

Reading it is a skill anyone who does it for a living certainly should
have.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

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Whatever.  Point being, as a programmer you don't need to write and I
would even say read assembly.

And as for your software, while it was worthy for a few years, it's
now discontinued.  As the song says, "Glory days....pass you by" - B.
Springstein

RL

BugHunter is DISCONTINUED SOFTWARE!
Click here to download BugHunter v2.2e updated August 26th, 2008

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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As a malware researcher tho, assembly is required. Atleast, for me.
 
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I discontinued BugHunter because I went to work for malwarebytes, I
couldn't continue updating both apps. One was a paying gig, the other
was free.


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sat, 21 May 2011 04:40:40 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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You can't truly understand what's going on unless you know the
assembly underneath.  You don't need it often but you need to be able
to understand what you see in the CPU window when things go wonky.

Once in a blue moon you might even need to write some to deal with
situations where you have to change something that you can't
recompile.

The last time that comes to mind was patching a showstopper bug in the
run-time library of the language I was using.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

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Actually I agree with you Loren Pechtel.  I would say a 'guru' coder
would indeed know how to read and write assembly.  I further agree
that "once in a blue moon" (i.e. 0.1% of the time) this skill comes in
handy, and that library functions do contain bugs.

But these cases are rare, and I would wager a professional programmer
does not need to have these skills.  Yes, if you want to be a guru,
lecture, and have a potential career in academia.  No, if you want to
write decent code and make decent money.

RL

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sun, 22 May 2011 06:47:27 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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I don't think a pro needs to be able to write it but being able to
read it is another matter.

Good luck figuring out what's up when you set a breakpoint on memory
access and you find yourself with a screenful of assembly when it
trips.  Unfortunately, as far as I can tell such breakpoints don't
exist in .net languages, denying a valuable tool.

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