The infamous email shuffle words virus or something - Page 3

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Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Last line rings true:  very useful for those that do driver and
firmware programming.  How many programmers do that? Probably less
than 10% I reckon.

The whole point of HLL is to abstract away from opcodes--for good
reasons.

RL

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sun, 22 May 2011 11:01:03 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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It's been a long time since I've written more than a few lines of
assembly.  I still feel that the ability to at least understand it is
an essential skill for a good programmer.

If you don't understand what's going on under the hood you'll never
truly know what your program is doing.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

bf60-9ec119765f77@j25g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:

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higher level language? Dude, as you can't read asm, you are very
limited in what you actually can program. I won't insult those of us
who are coders by referring to you as one.

I've been writing in assembler, c++ and various dialects of basic for
years.  You have no real skills. Mr Windows language only programmer.
You don't even understand what your high level language statements are
actually translated too.

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your programming skills? Laugh laugh. google raid slam. You can't even
explain what that piss simple program does, and it's as easy to read
source as is possible. I can write entire apps in assembly, if I was so
inclined. I typically only write tight functions in pure assembler and
stick with the HLL language for interface. Most "modern" coders do
this, unless there is a specific reason to go pure asm or pure HLL.

Again, since you can't read assembler (and that's very easy source
code, really) you aren't much of a programmer and you damn sure aren't
a coder.
 
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LOL. Google collective soul song lyrics. idiot.

While your at it, feel free to take lessons in programming.

--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

wrote:

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Note that he mentioned C#.  That's a .net language, it compiles to an
intermediate language and low-level debugging is done with this
intermediate, not with the machine code spit out by the final JIT
compiler.

I rather suspect he doesn't know even this, though.  (Personally I'll
admit to never having needed to deal with it but I have enough
experiene with assembly in the past that when the day comes that I
need to debug at that level I'll be able to figure out what I'm
doing.)

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Nope.  Try again.  The purpose of a compiler is to avoid having to
write in ASM.  Google program maintainability.

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OMG, did he just type "basic"?  As in Visual Basic?  And what OS?  No
doubt Windows.  So this guy programs in Visual Basic?  No further
questions Your Honor, I rest my case.

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Nope.  An entire program that runs the London Stock Exchange was
recently written in Visual C#.  True, it had to be rewritten in C (at
considerable cost, after it was up and running!) at the lower level
because they were not getting the millisecond performance demanded by
high-frequency traders, but that proves my point:  the very fact that
a decision was made to initially write such a massive system in Visual
C# proves that it's an enterprise-worthy higher language. What you are
doing would get you fired at most Level 1, grade A software shops: you
are trying to make yourself indispensable and immune from getting
fired by making your code unreadable and unmaintainable.    Typical
Dusty Dustbin Dustin Dunce (D4) tactics.

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OK D4.  Look, they wrote a song about you and your coding:

"Lack of knowledge has a source (oh boy)
Still my thoughts must run their course (oh yeah)
And they do" - 10 Years Later

RL

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

RayLopez99 wrote:

[...]

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LOL - *that's* a stretch.

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Basic predates MS. I was programming in basic well before Microsoft's
business even started, and it was already up to version 9.

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He's a well known coder and er 'freeware' programmer. :o)

...and he probably hates VB too.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

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Thanks that's interesting.  I'm curious, what did "basic" pre-Windows
or I should say pre-MSFT DOS run on?  CP/M? or some such?  Or more
probably some mainframe by IBM?

RL

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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CP/M came later. I wrote originally on TRS80basic, for a coco3. Not
windows. Not even close. <G> Incidently, my first PC was a 286 and it
didn't come with windows either.


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sun, 22 May 2011 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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My first computer was a TRS-80.  It came with it's own OS.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Mine too. :) I had the color computer 3. I later got the expansion pack,
the vga monitor; the serial cable printer (remember the din5 on the
back?), and the double deck floppy drives.


--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

wrote:

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I had a Mod IV, I never used the CoCo.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Oh... That was a monster...
 



--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

RayLopez99 wrote:
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General Electric mainframe in my case, and I think it was CP/M but I'm
not sure. I can't find any information online about what OS was being
used on that system.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

FromTheRafters wrote:
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Okay, found it. Evidently the OS was the same as the system designation
DTSS, an early multiuser OS. BASIC was developed there and the older
versions of BASIC had support for the "old" and "new" commands I remember.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Try again? Seriously? The purpose of a compiler is to make program
creation time shorter, not better, but shorter.
 
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Basic, yes... As in TandyBASIC, ASIC, TurboBasic (a borland product).
I have very limited experience with any "visual basic" for windows or
DOS. You did know a DOS version existed, right? [g] I did fuck around
with PDS 7.1 for sometime, but never got serious with it. VGA Planets
was written in it and that's what made me interested.

I posted a simple source code to something that's in pure assembler.
Hardly basic.
 
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Did you yourself write the app? That's a whopping and loud NO isn't
it? [g]
 
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You made a comment about my signature the other day, It was a lyric
snippit from a collective soul tune. It seems Shadow is right and you
might not be as old as I or he is...

--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sun, 22 May 2011 06:39:41 -0700 (PDT), RayLopez99

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I wrote stuff in Basic long before there was a program called
"Windows".

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1)  The fact that most everything is written in high level languages
these days doesn't change the need to understand what's going on.

2)  There was nothing obscure about his code other than the use of
hardcoded values instead of constants.  I have only one gripe with
it--it set up a stack that was not necessary for such a simple
program.  The OS-supplied one would be good enough.

If you want some cryptic code, consider this:

X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*

Saved as a .com file it's a real, albeit trivial program.  The authors
went to a lot of work to write it using only characters that anyone
can type.

If you save it out as a file expect your antivirus to scream.  It's
not malicious but it gets treated as if it were--it's meant to test
that your AV system is working.

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

Loren Pechtel wrote:
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For assembly, but it wouldn't be pure.

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I always liked that one because they had to use self-modification to
keep it all within the ASCII character set.

pop eax
xor eax,0x2550214f
inc eax
inc ecx
push eax
pop ebx
xor al,0x5c
push eax
pop edx
pop eax
xor eax,0x5e502834
sub [edi],esi
inc ebx
inc ebx
sub [edi],esi
jnl loc_40
inc ebp
dec ecx
inc ebx
inc ecx
push edx
sub eax,0x4e415453
inc esp
inc ecx
push edx
inc esp
sub eax,0x49544e41
push esi
dec ecx
push edx
push ebp
push ebx
sub eax,0x54534554
sub eax,0x454c4946
and [eax+ecx*2],esp

dec eax
sub ecx,[eax+0x2a]

Yep, pretty convoluted for a "Hello World" program.



Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

On Sun, 22 May 2011 19:51:10 -0400, FromTheRafters

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Does self-modification even work anymore?

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something


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Yes. :) Poly is still in effect.
 



--
Why drink the water from my hand?
Contagious as you think I am
Just tilt my sun towards your domain
Your cup runneth over again

Re: The infamous email shuffle words virus or something

wrote:

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Even if the instruction being modified already got loaded into cache?

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