Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

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Linux has viruses and malware.  See below.

Now please spin the facts and tell me why this is not so, Linux
cultists.

RL

http://www.av-comparatives.org/en/comparativesreviews/single-product-reviews

ESET NOD32 Antivirus 4 Business Edition for Linux Desktop May 2011
Review (english)

The growing availability of user-friendly Linux
operating systems for desktop and laptop PCs,
with business support packages available,
means that anti-malware solutions for Linux
are becoming more important. Security
software for Linux is  needed not only to
protect the computer itself, but also to
prevent malicious code aimed at other
systems, such as Windows, being passed
through the system. To counter such threats,
ESET have released ESET NOD32 Antivirus
Business Edition for Linux Desktop. For our
review, we installed the 32-bit Business
Edition, version 4.0.66.0, on 32-bit Ubuntu
Desktop Edition version 10.04. ESET also make
a Home Edition of the program, and both
Home and Business versions come in 32 and
64-bit versions.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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It actually explains to you why.

WHile Linux CAN catch a virus its rare as its rarely targetted by the
usual techniques since the "dumb" userbase is so small - that and
reasonably secure interfaces to the outside world.

In fact how can you NOT understand from the explanation above?

I guess its like when you had c# and Java explained to you : you totally
ignored all input and just stated what you used for no apparent reason.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

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Don't be so pissy Hadron.  We still play on the same team.  We are
both against Linux for our own reasons: you because you hate yourself
for using Linux, and I because I'm a Microsoft shareholder.  The enemy
of my enemy is my friend.  And you are my friend.  For now.

And yes, C# is superior to Java, see the thread there for more
details.  It was interesting to see others come to my conclusion.

Have a nice day,

--
RL  Atlanta, Georgia

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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I'm not on a team.

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I dont hate Linux in the slightest. I hate COLA "advocates".

So you do understand what the AV stuff above is for then?

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No one else came to your conclusion give or take.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

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In your mind you are not on a team.  But in fact you are, de facto, on
a team:  the anti-Linux team.  And welcome to the team.  We have
already prevailed, and the rest now is mopping up action.  At one
point, as a MSFT shareholder in the late 90s (you can see my handle,
which I have not changed, posting to even this newsgroup back then) I
was genuinely afraid of Linux getting market share from MSFT.  But no
longer.  Open source, like communism, had a short run then died out.
For largely the same reasons as Karl Marx's pseudo-scientific
philosophy.

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Yes, but you have to admit it's fun to beat up on these retards, who
show a certain monolithic approach to reality.  The putative German
Peter Kohlman is typical (I think also his English is limited, so he
tends to stick to stereotypical responses, which is common for EFL
students).

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Largely I take it for not "passing on" viruses to Windows based
systems when Linux is acting as a server?  Or what is your take?
Honestly I don't care--this is bad news for Linux, and I hope this
thread grows so the keywords "linux has viruses", "linux has malware",
"Linux is unsafe" get indexed by Google to help future users stay away
from Linux.

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No, read the response by the Hispanic surname'd poster who supported
me.

Have a nice day,

RL

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

On 31/08/2011 09:30, RayLopez99 wrote:
<snip>

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So basically what you are saying is that you have a financial interest
in discouraging other people from using Linux, regardless of whether or
not it is a good choice for them.  And you therefore hope that
misinformation about malware on Linux is spread, so that fewer people
will use Linux - all with the aim of increasing the value of your shares.

I am not sure there are words to describe an attitude like that.  It is
certainly a lot worse than just being a moronic sycophant with a
pathological inability to learn, listen, or use both brain cells at the
same time.


For what it's worth - which is not a lot, since you are unable to read
words that don't agree with you - the main market for anti-virus
software on Linux is to stop Windows malware passing through.  Far and
away the biggest use-case is for Linux mail servers to protect Windows
users.

There have been cases of malware for Linux, but they have all been rare,
spread poorly and done little damage.  There are many reasons why there
is little malware on Linux - and therefore little call for anti-malware
software targeting Linux directly.


The only big malware threat that faces Linux is attacks on web
applications that often run on Linux - but that is a security problem of
the application, not the OS.



Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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Whoever told you that nonsense?

Linux can be and is hacked.

It doesnt happen often but to encourage some sort of smug "I'm alright
jack" attitude is irresponsbile. Linux is as prone to social engineering
attacks as anyone else. Once they have any form of script running its
theres (please dont start on about how it must have the execute bit set
etc etc as thats all nonsense and has been disproven numerous
times). Various entry points exist not least dodgy tars containing
malicious make files, basj scripts etc. No, it doesnt happen often -
primarily because the naive desktop consumer usage of Linux is next to
non existent.

And thats before we even go into the issues with kernel vulnerabilities
etc etc which are uncovered all the time and generally fixed - the point
is its not fool proof as many like to portray.

Just look at the Linux mobile phone problems : Android is a malware
riddled mess in many cases.


Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

On 31/08/2011 14:15, Hadron wrote:
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Linux can certainly be cracked - but in the majority cases, it is not
due to malware, but simply poor security practices.  The most common
example is ssh exploitation with bad passwords.  You break into a Linux
machine by trying ssh with username "root", password "root" or "password".

With default installs for most distributions, Linux is fairly secure -
assuming you have picked good passwords.  But you can make it insecure
if you open services thoughtlessly.  You can also make it /very/ secure
if you want.

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I agree that Linux is not 100% secure - no system is.  But there is also
no doubt that Linux is /much/ more secure, and /much/ safer from malware
and other threats than Windows is.  It is certainly possible to make a
Windows system reasonably safe.  I run the IT department at my office,
and almost all desktops are Windows - we have had very few incidents of
malware, and no successful cracks, attacks, or worms.  But it is both
realistic and responsible to say that for a normal desktop/laptop Linux
user using a modern distro, you simply don't have to worry about
malware.  You don't have to install anti-virus software, third-party
firewalls, spyware detection software, etc.  You don't have to keep
these up-to-date or pay for subscriptions.  You don't even have to keep
your system up-to-date (though it is easy to do so) - although security
holes are found and fixed, they are seldom exploited so your risks are low.


If you are running a nuclear power station, you need to worry about your
Linux security.  If you are a typical home user - install Linux and
forget about security and malware.

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No, they are not - at least, not at the moment.  It would be a different
matter if there were a higher percentage of people using Linux on
desktops.  But the majority of people using Linux are people who have
made an active choice to use it - these are people who are more
technically competent, and less likely to follow instructions
thoughtlessly.  Linux users are by no means immune to social engineering
- but the average Linux user is much less susceptible than the average
Windows user.  And of course, there is the old "common target" argument
- since the great majority of target users run Windows, phishing,
"update your paypal account", and other social engineering efforts
target Windows users and not Linux.

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Ok, I won't mention the execute bit - there are ways around that.  You
still have the "root access" limitation, however.  Without root access,
any malicious script will only be able to read or affect the user's
files, not the rest of the system.  Of course, it's the user's files
that are important data, so that's still no small matter.  But it is
nevertheless a help - when your teenager borrows your machine to visit
dodgy websites, he may mess up his own files but not yours.

One way to get malware onto Linux machines, however, is by using things
like "apt://" links to packages - this gives an easier way into root
privileges.  But even then, the user will have to manually enter their
password (or the root password).  And the non-homogeneity of Linux means
that an attacker would need to make a series of dpkg and rpm packages.

It is not impossible to make Linux malware - it is just very hard to
make Linux malware that actually does something useful (to the author)
and spreads successfully.  Maybe one day the percentage of desktop users
with Linux will be high enough that someone will make the effort.  But
for now, the biggest malware danger on desktop Linux is probably that
Wine is getting so good at running Windows programs that it happily runs
many types of Windows malware...


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The huge majority of kernel vulnerabilities (or vulnerabilities in other
system software) are obscure - they are typically things like race
conditions triggered by weird malformed network packets.  It is very
rare that such vulnerabilities can be reliably exploited in practice,
and even rarer that they /are/ exploited.

It still makes good sense to update to fix these - but it does not make
sense for a normal desktop user to worry about them.

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Android is effectively a massive java application running on Linux - and
that /application/ has plenty of security holes.  No arguments there.


Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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Agreed. But that is not the issue.
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I actually made that point. I wont check if you snipped it since you're
clearly not just spouting nonsense and only want to clarify rather than
distort which is more the norm in COLA. But Linux itself is as
prone. The users are less likely to apply it though.

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That and the old joke that most Linux users are too tight to buy
anything with a credit card online anyway ;)

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I am glad you recognise that. Most COLA "fanbois" dont.

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Well, true and not so true. If he has some script cronned into his user
account and your files are visible, which they frequently are, prepre to
have them read and transmitted.

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Or a user space script prompt for a sudo password and keeps it... Its
not too hard ;)

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I think Wine is getting worse and is doomed. Virtualisation is taking over.

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And all down to user base.

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Not at the moment no.

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As are many of the Apps which run on Linux desktops. Do users really
know what the plugins for Amarok etc etc are doing? No.

Thanks for your reasonable and accurate response. It did not differ much
from what I said.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

On 31/08/2011 15:39, Hadron wrote:
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(I didn't snip your comment about low "naive desktop consumer usage of
Linux" - just re-expressed it in a more relevant way.)

We agree on the main point - (current) Linux users are less likely to be
prone to social engineering.  But I also think Linux itself is less
vulnerable, since "activating" social engineering attacks usually takes
more clicks, password entries, etc., in Linux.  More clicks and effort
means more time for common sense to kick in and stop you.  The
difference here between Windows and Linux has changed over the years,
however.

Windows has traditionally had the attitude that things should be as easy
as possible - things should happen automatically without user
intervention, or with a minimum of clicks and choices.  The good side of
this is obvious, but it has a bad side too - it has made life as easy as
possible for malware authors.  Thus you had an email client that would
happily auto-open attachments, autorun.inf on CDs and usb sticks, etc.,
etc.  Windows has got gradually saner in this respect, and obviously it
helps to use non-MS email and web clients (though again MS's clients
have improved).  Linux, on the other hand, has got gradually easier in
this way (with apt:// links as an example).  So social engineering
attacks are harder than they used to be on Windows, and easier than they
used to be on Linux - but I still think Linux is safer here.

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That depends on the distro - many distros make user's home directories
unreadable to others.  It's certainly a possibility that the malicious
script can read other files - but that's generally not as bad as being
able to write them.

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There are advantages and disadvantages of both approaches - it's good to
have the choice.

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No, not /all/ down to the user base.  It is mostly a matter of a better
design and a better implementation of the OS.  The smaller user base -
and therefore fewer attackers, and fewer hosts to spread - is an extra
bonus that makes Linux even more secure.

It's a myth that Linux security is due to its small user base.  It
doesn't take much understanding, or much web research, to see that. It's
no better a claim than if Linux fans say that Windows is full of holes
and a security joke.  Low user base is a mixed blessing - few bad guys
finding holes, fewer good guys finding holes.

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One big difference is that with normal Linux distros, you get most
(often all) of your software from the distro, with packages that are
signed by the distro, and for which the distro maintainers have the
source code.  While the quality of the security checking varies with the
distro, it is much harder (not impossible, but harder) to get malware
into the package.

With Android, people get software from all over, and most of it is in
closed-source form.  There is no one doing any sort of checking on the
security of the packages (at least, no one doing a good enough job).  In
this sense, it is more like Windows where people get software from
random web sites, with no idea if they contain malware or security
problems, and no good way of checking.


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I think we differ more than you imply here - but I try to be realistic
rather than fanatic.


Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

wrote:

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Read less.  Less is more and you are a bore.

RL

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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I would have to disagree, there. I run reasonably secure windows NT
systems here. It's the person between the keyboard and chair which is
responsible for the network security at the end of the day. Linux isn't
any more/less secure than windows, depending on how it's being deployed
and the configuration it's being used in. Again, it's the admin who's
responsible if security is amiss.

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Which incidents of malware have you suffered? If any due to browser
vulnerability, I'd suggest you switch browsers and stop letting them
surf with administrator rights.

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The PLC boards aren't running linux in the power plants, that often.
It's proprietary junk.
 
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Which will change. Linux has a niche market, for now. It has the
illusion of better security as a result.


--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

David Brown wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

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Amazing how the 'Softies keep pushing the same boolshit throughout the
years, isn't it?

Linux/UNIX grew up in a networked hacker's paradise spanning the globe, from
its roots with a telephony provider.

Windows grew up on consumers' "personal computers", from its roots with
"Traf-O-Data".

That's a key difference.

--
In a display of perverse brilliance, Carl the repairman mistakes a room
humidifier for a mid-range computer but manages to tie it into the network
anyway.
        -- The 5th Wave

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

On 8/31/2011 5:15 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
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Don't let this clown fool you. He's a MS programmer that couldn't get a
damn job using Linux if his life depended upon it. He's a total hypocrite.


Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

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.

Hahaha!  Good one Big Steel.  That's right, Dustin is a clown who has
written viruses for fun inbetween his real job working as one of the
leading programmers in the world.  Chris Ahlstrom is so dumb that (as
he admitted in COLA) he once gave out vital personal information about
his teenage daughter and his wife to an internet stalker.  Or at least
that was the impression I got.  A real family man, Piss Angstrom is.

RL

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware

RayLopez99 wrote:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQs6EUry4EM


Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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I'm the ehh, clown who handed you your ass in alt.comp.virus you mean. ;p



--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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Hardly.


--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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I'm not pushing you any bullshit. I'm just giving you my opinion as
that as a former vxer. I targetted windows systems because they were
lots more of them. Not because I thought linux was immune. :)
 
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Yea. I don't need an education in my own past, thanks tho.
 
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NT wasn't originally intended for end users.


--
I am a sinner
Hold my prayers upto the sun
I am a sinner
Heaven's closed for what I've done.

Re: Really 'dumb' question: why does Linux have viruses? linux virus, linux malware


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That's so true Dustin.  Linux is 'security by obscurity', with market
share being the obscurity. At one time people suggested using Firefox
because it had less market share than MSFT IE, and so fewer browser
exploits, but that advantage faded as soon as they picked up market
share.

BTW I did not know you could run a browser with elevated privileges
(administrator rights).

As for viruses or malware, the latest episode for me on W7 was when,
as you suggest, I foolishly ran an executable found on an external HD
that was a virus--no fault then of Windows.

RL


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