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Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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Ray...
condencending attitudes aren't very nice. It's one thing if you had the
right, walked the walk.. but you never have... So when it comes from
you, it's annoying.
 


--
I don't need no arms around me. And I dont need no drugs to calm me. I
have seen the writing on the wall. Don't think I need anything at all.
No! Don't think I'll need anything at all. All in all it was all just
bricks in the wall. All in all you were all just bricks in the wall.
Pink Floyd Another Brick in the Wall part 3

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Sunday, July 22, 2012 5:43:48 PM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
 
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You mean a noob like me is getting under your skin?  You, the black hat pioneer
of CBBS?  Goes to show, youth always will beat experience in the end.

RL

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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I didn't have anything to do with CBBS. I wrote a BBS package called Core,
but it's not related to the one you found in the wikipedia article. It was
developed in the early 90s. You don't get under my skin, your stupidity
does. Anyones stupidity would. I have a low tolerance for intentionally
being dumb.

I don't understand what you mean by youth beating experience. I suspect
i'm younger than you, but my experience on computers most likely exceeds
yours by a wide margin.


--
I don't need no arms around me. And I dont need no drugs to calm me. I
have seen the writing on the wall. Don't think I need anything at all. No!
Don't think I'll need anything at all. All in all it was all just bricks
in the wall. All in all you were all just bricks in the wall.
Pink Floyd Another Brick in the Wall part 3

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:55:48 PM UTC-4, RayLopez99 wrote:
[snip]
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yes, that's what i'm saying. they construct queries by string concatenation or
formatting and forgo the use of parameters

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i work as a software developer and you pretty much hit the nail on the head with
that last comment. the integrity of the development process is frequently
compromised to suit other business constraints. i find it to be one of the
hardest parts of the job.

[snip]
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when i suggested images it wasn't for dealing with what microsoft might do to
you but rather what others might do to you if you've got an unpatched system.

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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This is why our differences in background are important. You don't
really know how the authenticity check works. I do. I've used it to my
advantage many times because I know what it does, why it does it, what
it expects for a good result and a bad one; and as a result! (this is
the best part now) translate that knowledge into the ability to "fool"
it. Fool it into thinking a legit box failed, or the reverse. At my
disposal. I can do this manually, OR! (Background so important) write a
small app in one of several windows/non windows based languages to make
it easier for others.

Fact is, (I know some of you will find this arrogant.. but, it's not) I
have skills you don't. Those skills come in handy from time to time. You
can only theorize how something might work, you're unable to affect it.
I OTH, can change it to do whatever I want it to do.

I hope that satisfies your question, Kurt.

Ray may downplay and insult me all he likes, but facts are facts at the
end of the day. It is what it is.

--
I called the help line. It was outsourced to Pakistan.
"What's the matter?"  
"I'm depressed."
"Can you drive a truck?"


Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Friday, July 20, 2012 8:51:03 PM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
[snip]
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that's not quite right. it remains to be seen if you have skills i don't. w=
hat you have is knowledge that i don't (and i freely concede that). that's =
knowledge i haven't cared to pursue. if you think it's knowledge i'm incapa=
ble of pursuing or incapable of putting to use, well, you're free to believ=
e what you like.


Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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Remains to be seen? Kurt, I was wildlisting real viruses 10-15 years
ago. I pulled a two year stint at malwarebytes reverse engineering
software. That's HUNDREDS of samples per day. I'm not clear what you
mean at this point by remains to be seen.

It's not like a big secret. I've done some shitty things, but they all
required skills you simply don't have.


--
I called the help line. It was outsourced to Pakistan.
"What's the matter?"  
"I'm depressed."
"Can you drive a truck?"


Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 9:25:00 AM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
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[snip]
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probably you don't hire a physicist either, and yet richard feynman was an =
accomplished safe cracker.

[snip]
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it's closely related to the truism that you can't prove a negative. unless =
you've been looking over my shoulder all my life and witnessing me try and =
fail to do something you cannot know what i can or can't do. it's basic log=
ic.
=20
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again, you don't know what i do or don't have.

but let's digress for a moment, shall we? as someone who's been acquainted =
with you since the days of fidonet, it's my observation that during your st=
int with mbam, and even before with bughunter, you seemed to be leading a f=
ulfilling and personally rewarding existence. you were calmer, gentler, mor=
e understanding and tolerant than during your days on the other side of the=
 fence. i say this because i'm beginning to detect the old raid i used to k=
now and it makes me wonder "what's wrong?"=20

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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LOL. Okay then. If you think you can assist Ray in exploiting a box, you
feel free and describe the process. I'm almost certain you will fail.
 
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I can take an educated guess, based on the information you've offered
Ray so far. Does that help?

I haven't seen any code from you that indicates you have
hacking/cracking skills, no. Not one single time.

For all I know, you're talking shit.
  
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I can take educated guesses based on the advice I've seen you offer
people for years and years. You remind me of Nick Fitzgerald. He talked
alot of shit too, and it turns out, he was a macro coder. Macro.. not
assembler, not anything. Just macro.. As in, Word script.

He was talking from his ass when it concerned any real virus that wasn't
based on word macro script. He didn't have the skills on his own to
reverse engineer a simple binary, let alone a polymorph. He couldn't
handle my viruses, as they were real binaries. He depended on others to
do his dirty work, but he was happy to try and take credit for the
diagnosis, until you questioned him about how he achieved those results.
[g]


I don't think your an idiot Kurt, but I don't think you're like me
either... For what it's worth. I'm sure you do know some stuff, I just
know alot more...A tradeoff. I'm sure you enjoy yourself in the evening,
doing social things. Especially on weekends. I don't.. anymore.

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Things were different then. I'll be honest with you Kurt, I owe you
that. I will not be going back to the dark-arts. Most likely, just
burning out...

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Things were different then, Kurt. It's near the end of the run now...
 



--
I called the help line. It was outsourced to Pakistan.
"What's the matter?"  
"I'm depressed."
"Can you drive a truck?"


Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 7:58:41 PM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
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i'm fairly certain this thread was about protecting a vulnerable box, not e=
xploiting one.
=20
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all one can demonstrate with words is knowledge, not skill (at least not te=
chnical skill).

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perhaps we simply have different ideas of where skill ends and knowledge/ex=
perience begins. perhaps what you call skill i would call domain knowledge.=
 to my mind, if it's something one can learn then it is knowledge, not skil=
l.

[snip]
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the grass always seems greener, doesn't it?

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i don't know that you owe me anything. i think you owe yourself an answer t=
o that question, though, and i think 'the situation is crumbier now' just s=
cratches the surface. it's a superficial answer. we all have basic human ne=
eds, sometimes those needs aren't fulfilled, and sometimes the strategies w=
e use to correct that don't work. reflection and self-knowledge may reveal =
strategies untested and opportunities unseen. think about it.

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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If you don't know how the exploits are done, how do you intend to
protect the box from them? Knowledge is one thing, skill is the other
half to it. Applied knowledge. :)

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I leave the old projects under my hacking name as a demonstration of
knowledge and skill.
 
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I think I can make this easier for us both. You have classroom theory
knowledge. I have "how it works in the real world" knowledge. I've got
the classroom stuff too, but I've also had the fortune of applying it in
the field. This is where I suspect we differ.



--
I don't need no arms around me. And I dont need no drugs to calm me. I
have seen the writing on the wall. Don't think I need anything at all.
No! Don't think I'll need anything at all. All in all it was all just
bricks in the wall. All in all you were all just bricks in the wall.
Pink Floyd Another Brick in the Wall part 3

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:55:19 AM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
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[snip]
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as is so often pointed out, knowing how to think like an attacker has limit=
ed benefit when defending.

earlier in this thread i mentioned whitelisting (because exploits are often=
 just the first part of a multi-stage attack) and sandboxing (to isolate vu=
lnerable apps from the rest of the system). additional generic defenses mig=
ht include behavioural monitoring (so you can see when an app starts behavi=
ng oddly) and integrity checking (to detect the changes necessary to affect=
 persistence).

while specific knowledge can certainly be very useful, it is also important=
 to be prepared for when specific knowledge simply isn't available (like fo=
r as yet unpublished 0-days) - and that means generic defenses.

[snip]
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well, i did already concede that you have knowledge i don't have. the thing=
 about knowledge, though, is that it's never really that far away. even exp=
erience simply requires that you put in the effort.=20

i have looked at binaries, but not complex ones, not in a professional capa=
city, and nowhere near as many as you. i've also looked at some scripts, bu=
t never macros. i've also broken software protection (for the sake of compa=
tibility; integrating an uncooperative partner's technology into a winlogon=
 solution when that partner thought any licensing hiccup warranted process =
termination lead to a lot of blue screens until i could query their donglew=
are myself). i'm not useless when it comes to breaking things, but my emplo=
yer seems to think my energy is more usefully spent on making things. i enj=
oy both so it doesn't matter to me.

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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BugHunter alone required I take apart thousands. I did thousands more
while entombed with malwarebytes...



--
I don't need no arms around me. And I dont need no drugs to calm me. I
have seen the writing on the wall. Don't think I need anything at all. No!
Don't think I'll need anything at all. All in all it was all just bricks
in the wall. All in all you were all just bricks in the wall.
Pink Floyd Another Brick in the Wall part 3

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Sunday, July 22, 2012 11:41:03 PM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
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=20
You know what they say, it takes a crook to catch a crook.  So, you had a g=
ood job at MalwareBytes, and you gave it up to turn again to the dark side?=
  What made you do that?  Backsliding they call it in AA.  You're clean for=
 a year or two, then you go back on the bender.  You are crooked Dustin.  N=
ot a straight arrow.  And your life of crime will catch up to you someday. =
 Bet on it.  I just hope when you go out you don't try and take others with=
 you like that kook in Colorado.

"Best of luck" (and do post some source in C for a simple virus--heavily co=
mmented please--I did say please).

RL

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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Who said anything about returning to the darkside? I've authored no
malicious software of any kind since 2000. 12 years ago.

I like your assumptions tho. Keep em coming. :)

Btw, when Kurt corrected you (I'm grateful he spoke up, but I didn't
expect he'd do so) about me, how did the crow taste? I'm not the halfwit
fuckhead you thought I was... ;p
 
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Nobody with any real skill uses C for viruses. It's bloated, and
inefficient for it.
 


--
Things look bad from over here. Too much confusion and no solution.
Everyone here knows your fear. Your out of touch and you try too much.
Yesterdays glory will help us today. You wanna retire? Get outta the
way. I ain't got much time. Young ones close behind. I can't wait in
line.


Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Monday, July 23, 2012 4:05:05 PM UTC-4, Dustin wrote:
 
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What do you think is used then?  Assembly language?

RL

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Monday, July 23, 2012 9:34:31 PM UTC-4, RayLopez99 wrote:
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that is precisely what was used.

then macro languages came along, and scripting languages, and a lot of less
talented folks got in on the virus writing because it was easier to modify  (or
even cobble together) viruses written in interpreted languages.

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?


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Well, not exactly easier.. Depends on what you intended to do. ;p


--
Things look bad from over here. Too much confusion and no solution.
Everyone here knows your fear. Your out of touch and you try too much.
Yesterdays glory will help us today. You wanna retire? Get outta the way.
I ain't got much time. Young ones close behind. I can't wait in line.


Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 12:06:26 AM UTC-4, kurt wismer wrote:
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Thanks, as I thought.  Our fiend Dustbin is probably then a "kiddie scripter"
(absent any evidence to the contrary, which he has not produced) and interpreted
languages (without Googling it) sounds like what Java would be.

RL

Re: I got a pirate copy of Vista that won't accept updates--what's the best form of protection?

On Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:37:44 PM UTC-4, RayLopez99 wrote:
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http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/irok.shtml

not exactly the work of a script kiddie.

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interpreted languages are those which are not compiled - where the program is
distributed in a form that allows you to read the source code. java actually can
be compiled. javascript is an interpreted language though.

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