Flame War

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Well I can see that this entire group has fallen into one giant flame war.
Use some asbestos suits and troll repellant people!

Re: Flame War

address_is wrote:

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If your choice of NNTP client has no decent filtering then stop visiting
Usenet with it.  Get a real newsreader on a better computer capable of
running application software.  Then define kill filters.  It doesn't
take but a few to squelch most of the noise here.

Re: Flame War


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Please enlighten me on which filters you run. I use Thunderbird, and the  
only things I can filter on without forcing the client downloading  
complete headers (slow) are things like From/To/Subject etc. Filtering  
on "Injection-Info: sewer.dizum.com" for instance would remove a lot of  
crap, but that header is not downloaded AFAIK unless I define a filter  
for it and then TB will download all headers and be slow...

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--  
! _\|/_  Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
! (o o)   Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation/EFF/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo  "I have a sudden, irresistable urge to yodel." -Darkwing


Filtering dizum garbage (was: flame war)

B00ze/Empire wrote:
  
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You are on drugs.

Downloading full headers is hardly any slower than basic header info.

Re: Flame War


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I don't use TB (I've never actually seen it in operation, other than  
pics posted online) so excuse my question... but, why is it slow  
downloading header information?  
  
I may have to switch usenet clients anyway.. I'm having trouble  
finding the setting that tells Xnews to keep my old posts too. Once  
I've read them, they disappear and I have to muddle with the pointer  
settings to get it back; and that brings other posts back too. I  
don't want them to go off screen just because I've already read it.

Picking the load read articles option is a no go, it loads everything  
everytime you enter another newsgroup... :( I may not be explaining  
myself well either.. Still working on first cup of java.

Re: Flame War

Dustin wrote:

[...]

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I use TBird exclusively, but I use an older version as I didn't like the  
way the newer ones looked and worked. I don't get what the poster means  
by headers being slow to download, unless he(?) means subscribing to a  
new group that has tons of posts and trying to download every single  
header. In that case, the download is slow and sometimes TB will freeze  
before finishing the download. In that case, I go back and set the limit  
to 5000 headers at a time and add onto the download 5000 at a time, as  
needed.

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I keep all posts showing in most groups, as it makes it easier to find  
one if you need to search for a particular post. I have Giganews and can  
see all the way back to 2003 in most of the groups to which I subscribe.  
I found a post just a few days ago that you were accused of having  
written, did a screen a shot that clearly shows who the poster actually  
was.

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In TB you can do the settings for each group separately. You can have  
one group set to show "all" and another group set to show only "unread".  
You can filter a poster so that you never see their name, except in  
quotes, and you don't have to read those. You can filter entire threads.  
You may have someone filtered in one group and not another. It's even  
possible to have the settings so that nym shifters do not show up in  
your face ... without them going to the trouble of setting up new  
accounts ... in which event ... they must be really desperate to be  
seen. [g]

That is my experience ... YMMV. [g]

--  
.

Re: Flame War


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Oi.. what a pain. I was experiencing something similar trying to use  
NewsXpress on windows NT. heheh...
  
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That's exactly what I want it for too: to make it easier to go back  
and find a post. I want the thread to remain complete and intact, not  
hiding some posts I've already read. It's not hiding all of them. I  
just can't find the setting that controls it? :(


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I can do individual group settings with Xnews too. Afaik though, I  
haven't set any funny filters that would hide posts on me. I don't  
really want to filter any of the posts, actually. That's what I'm  
trying to turn off. In a day or less, this post I'm writing won't  
show up on my screen, unless I muddle with the pointers (post count)  
again. I want that to stop.  

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Xnews has all kinds of filtering options, but right now, I'm looking  
to turn them ALL off. :) I just don't want it to reload the entire  
collection from the server every single time I enter a newsgroup. I  
want it to keep the posts I've already read in the right threading  
order, just not hide them on me.
  
I'll keep looking and tinkering.. Unless jax wants to come along and  
gloat and show me how to do what I'm wanting? :) I admit, I don't  
know off hand how to make Xnews behave in the way I want.

I am checking out the ... ehh, manual and my ini files to make sure I  
haven't messed something up.

--  
My truck does not leak. It's just marking its territory!  

Flame War

+ User FidoNet address: 1:3634/12
 On Sat, 22 Nov 2014, Dustin wrote to All:


 D> I may have to switch usenet clients anyway.. I'm having trouble  
 D> finding the setting that tells Xnews to keep my old posts too. Once  
 D> I've read them, they disappear and I have to muddle with the pointer
 D> settings to get it back; and that brings other posts back too. I  
 D> don't want them to go off screen just because I've already read it.  

 D> Picking the load read articles option is a no go, it loads
 D> everything  everytime you enter another newsgroup... :( I may not be
 D> explaining  myself well either.. Still working on first cup of java.

when you are reading posts, look at the bottom of the screen and see if the
package icon is set to store the headers and/or the bodies... there's another
setting elsewhere that will remove them when the server removes them... by
default, nothing is saved... i always have to find this and adjust it, too...
it really sucks when one is pulling several hundred areas... this is one reason
why i prefer to read using BBS tech... the onus is on the BBS and if i want to
keep the messages, then i can download them using an offline format ;)

)\/(ark
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA)        +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: Flame War

+ User FidoNet address: 1:3634/12
 On Sat, 22 Nov 2014, Dustin wrote to All:


 D> Yep. I've already checked there too. I've told it to store message  
 D> body and contents locally, don't delete them for 90 days.. So it's  
 D> supposedly saving everything... but.. it's hiding things from me  
 D> too.  

i can't check right now but i think there's also a setting to hide read posts
or not... i know that in some areas, i prefer to see all posts, read or not...
in some areas, i want the filtered crap deleted... in some areas, i read
messages as they were posted and in other areas, i read in threaded mode... it
can be quite twisted getting everything set just right and then having to
figure it all out again on another machine or if the config is lost for some
reason ;)

)\/(ark
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA)        +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: Flame War

B00ze/Empire wrote:

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See the headers of my posts.  My choice lets me use regex so not only
can I catch numerous permutations of a nymshifter but I can focus on
just the troll while eliminating most false positives.  Substring
searches are too over reaching.  For example, I can specify using regex
if the string is in the e-mail field of the From header and exclude the
comment (name) field, look only in the comment field and not in the
e-mail field, or test on strings in both the e-mail and comment fields,
along with requiring certain syntax around the strings and if they can
be anywhere within the field or only if they are at the start or end of
a field.  My filters are probably 99% regular expressions rather than
simple tests.

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Filtering in Thunderbird is as weak as it is in Outlook Express and its
Windows Live Mails incarnation.  Well, Thunderbird eventually added
another rule condition to test on a named header.  That header must be
in the set of overview headers.  You cannot test on any header.

My choice lets me test on all headers but only because I have it
download the entire message, not just its overview headers (and then
have to click on the message to get the rest).  I visit text-only
newsgroups so downloading the bodies of all [new] messages doesn't take
long despite subscribing to 98 newsgroups.  Because the full message
gets downloaded, all headers are available on which to test, and my
choice lets me specify the header's name so I can test on any of them.
Because regex is available, I can test on any part of a header, not just
the leading part of the string; e.g., I can test the injection node for
a post by looking at the first (rightmost) node listed in the Path
header (while excluding the mail2news and other fluff at the end).

I have all (known to me) anonymizing injection nodes filtered out.  For
example, I can filter dizum by looking at the Path, Message-ID, and even
the From header (since some will use a fixed nym or rotate amongst a few
number of nyms rather than use the nym specified by the poster).  I'm
sure my anonymizing sources isn't complete but the ones that I have are
pretty good for squelching the noise.  I also lurk in several newsgroups
where they are discussed to see if there's something more on which I can
test to filter out such posts.

My client does 2-pass filtering.  It has the first pass like other
clients where it runs the filters against the overview headers.  That's
quicker since there are fewer overview headers on which to test (telnet
to your NNTP server and run "list overview.fmt" to see which are that
server's overview headers).  It also has a 2nd pass which will exercise
the filters on all parts of a message; however, if a message got flagged
in the 1st pass, it is skipped in the 2nd pass.  So the quick test on
overview headers can catch a lot of bad posts which helps speed up the
2nd pass by not wasting time to retest those already flagged message
with further testing.  Even with already-flagged posts in the 1st pass
getting skipped in the 2nd pass, the 2nd pass is definitely slower as
the entire post must be retrieved from the server so ALL headers are
available for testing.  I have a LOT of filters accrued over the years
and each one gets tested against every message which is getting
downloaded in its entirety instead of just the overview headers.  That's
not much a problem when visiting text-only newsgroups except the first
time you visit a voluminous newsgroup where all posts get downloaded
with header+body (I download all posts, not just the first few hundred,
to make sure threading is correct in all of them).

I don't delete "bad" posts.  I only hide them and use a view that "Hide
Ignored Messages".  There are times when someone refers to a post that
would normally be hidden to me and I might need to see what was in the
hidden posts (trolls sometimes have moments of clarity).  It also
eliminates breaking the chain of posts using in filtering them out.  If
I don't want to see posts from a troll, I certainly also do not want to
see replies to that troll (by other trolls or flamers).  I configure my
client to not only ignore bad posts using filters but also configure it
to ignore the entire subthread from the post that got ignore-flagged.
If I deleted posts, those replies wouldn't have the parent in my
client's message store so it wouldn't know to also ignore those child
posts (replies to the bad post).

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