Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers - Page 3

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Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers


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The internet has nothing to do with viruses except it just so happens that
it provides a popular transportation mechanism between devices.

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Have you ever seen a sandbox where *all* the sand stayed within?

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I've only got good viruses :) , and I want to keep them for awhile.

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People make it so easy to for malware writers that they don't *need* to
write viruses to get them to execute their malware. You shouldn't judge
the idea of AV scanners by their uselessness in the face of "safe hex".
Digital promiscuity is the norm, and AV has evolved (or devolved) into
what it is today because of it (and to some extent has caused it by being
the enabler of bad behavior).

Forget the diapers - it is more a parallel of contraception. Contraception
is good for birth control, but if it promotes promiscuity then it is the enabler
of behavior that gives bandwidth to STDs. Then the (AV) contraceptive
manufacturer decides to add new mechanisms to combat the STD problem
- which seems a good idea on its face - but looking back you see the (AV)
has enhanced its own market here.

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Yes, except for the virus there is no need for AV (they must have thought
of this when they named it "antivirus").



Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers


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You forgot about Ajax.. I was reading an article about it in
informationweekly; Interesting environment.


--
Regards,
Dustin
Sites I find interesting:
http://www.boycottriaa.com
http://p2pnet.net


Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

Raid wrote:
[snip]
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i believe ajax falls under "scripting" since the programming component
of it is javascript...

--
"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer,
is there an answer?"

Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers


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You would be correct, I suspect. It's 3am, I'm too tired to go and check.



--
Regards,
Dustin
Sites I find interesting:
http://www.boycottriaa.com
http://p2pnet.net


Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:19:01 -0700, * * Chas wrote:

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Actually, I find reading news in a text-only news reader
and not responding to phishing attempts works perfectly
well to keep my computer safe.

I've run for years and years with no AV software, then some new
bout of dire warnings will come up and I'll try some for a while.

1. They never find any viruses on my computer (which ran
unprotected for years without them).

2. It is almost impossible to distinguish between the behavior
of a virus and the behavior of anti-virus software.

You pay for the AV software rather than having it sneak
onto your machine, and it is easier to un-install (thank God!),
but other than that, it is a lot like having a virus. Your
machine is horribly bogged down, ordinary tasks like installing
new software are often blocked by it, it is constantly popping
up annoying windows. In fact, there are a lot of viruses
that aren't as destructive as the anti-virus software :-).


Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:59:55 GMT, Tom Horsley

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That would make a great sig line :)

Art
http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

Tom Horsley wrote:
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That's a good point, what is the purpose of the anti-virus software? To
make your life easier? Then it clearly fails when compared to buying a
copy of "Not downloading and running viruses, for dummies", which would
be a source of enlightenment (if in fact such a book existed), rather
than frustration everytime an email is needed quickly but contains a
large attachment.


Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers


| Very few people need it. For most of us there are much cleaner, cheaper
| solutions. Namely: You need to control what comes in and what goes out.
|
| Stop wasting your time, money and dignity. Learn to control your
| computer.

I suggest you also don't wear automobile seatbelts, don't lock your house doors,
don't wear
saftey goggles when using power equipemnt, yada, yada.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm



Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

David H. Lipman wrote:
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I don't think you thought those analogies through. Let's look at each
of them.

Seatbelts:
- Required by law in many places (is it illegal not to have anti-virus
at home?)
- They can stop you dying
- No quality of driving can save you if someone else crashes into you

Locks:
- Are exactly what I'm advocating: Secure programs, firewalls, keeping
things out, not leaving your doors and windows unlocked and then
chasing burglars around once they're in the house.

Safety Goggles:
- Prevent access to your eyes, again they're what i'm advocating;
rather than, say, some kind of "eye cleaning and healing fluid" to be
applied after all the damage is done.


Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers


| David H. Lipman wrote:
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|>> Very few people need it. For most of us there are much cleaner, cheaper
|>> solutions. Namely: You need to control what comes in and what goes out.
|>>
|>> Stop wasting your time, money and dignity. Learn to control your
|>> computer.
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|
| I don't think you thought those analogies through. Let's look at each
| of them.
|
| Seatbelts:
| - Required by law in many places (is it illegal not to have anti-virus
| at home?)
| - They can stop you dying
| - No quality of driving can save you if someone else crashes into you
|
| Locks:
| - Are exactly what I'm advocating: Secure programs, firewalls, keeping
| things out, not leaving your doors and windows unlocked and then
| chasing burglars around once they're in the house.
|
| Safety Goggles:
| - Prevent access to your eyes, again they're what i'm advocating;
| rather than, say, some kind of "eye cleaning and healing fluid" to be
| applied after all the damage is done.

Boy you have this all wrong.

You wear eye protrection to prevent eye damage.

You use anti virus to prevent infections.

Now if schrapnel comes though the sides of the glasses you may still have injury.

Now if a new virus that goes undetected may get past your AV you might get
infected.

Why use a condom ?  To prevent a STD or preganacy.

Why use AV software, to prebent infection.


I haandle hundres of viral and non-viral malware per month.  I visit porn web
sites yet I
haven't been infected once.

I can say that I have visited some malicious web sites where I was saved by my
Mcafee
Enterprise VirusScan v7.1.  I will also add I went to those web sites KNOWING
they were
malicious !

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm



Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

David H. Lipman wrote:
[...]
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No that's a firewall, or a secure client. Anti-virus tries to clean up
the infection.

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What kind of a browser do you use where a *website* can give you
malware? The worst I've had from a website was a bunch of pop-ups
jumping around my screen, so I went to tools->options and disabled the
ability of javscript to move and resize windows. Problem solved.

Give me any website and I will go there without anti-virus.

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Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers



|
| What kind of a browser do you use where a *website* can give you
| malware? The worst I've had from a website was a bunch of pop-ups
| jumping around my screen, so I went to tools->options and disabled the
| ability of javscript to move and resize windows. Problem solved.
|
| Give me any website and I will go there without anti-virus.
|

Don't tempt me.  I know some real bad ones !
You *will* get infected !

I'll tell ya what.  You need a video codec.

Go to hxxp://www.media-codec.com  and download and install the latest version
:-)

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm



Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

David H. Lipman wrote:
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Hmm, all my video files play fine. Why do I need another one?

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Never heard of it, musn't be a popular codec. Quick google search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=media+codec.com

Oh what? It's a trojan. Good thing I looked into it for 3 seconds.

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LOL "download and install the latest version". Two untrustworthy
sources of software quickly identified: media-codec.com and David H.
Lipman.

But you said that websites could give you malware, it hardly counts if
the website is just a conduit for me agreeing to copy and install a
trojan. That's not fair to the web and all the people who work hard on
making secure web clients.

That's like blaming the city gate for the original trojan horse.

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Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers


| David H. Lipman wrote:
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|>> What kind of a browser do you use where a *website* can give you
|>> malware? The worst I've had from a website was a bunch of pop-ups
|>> jumping around my screen, so I went to tools->options and disabled the
|>> ability of javscript to move and resize windows. Problem solved.
|>>
|>> Give me any website and I will go there without anti-virus.
|>>
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|
| Hmm, all my video files play fine. Why do I need another one?
|
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|
| Never heard of it, musn't be a popular codec. Quick google search.
|
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=media+codec.com
|
| Oh what? It's a trojan. Good thing I looked into it for 3 seconds.
|
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|
| LOL "download and install the latest version". Two untrustworthy
| sources of software quickly identified: media-codec.com and David H.
| Lipman.
|
| But you said that websites could give you malware, it hardly counts if
| the website is just a conduit for me agreeing to copy and install a
| trojan. That's not fair to the web and all the people who work hard on
| making secure web clients.
|
| That's like blaming the city gate for the original trojan horse.
|


Yeah, there are a couple dozen web sites puporting to be a Digital Key Generator
or Media
Codec and are really ZLob Trojan installers.  The web sites are auto-generating
new variants
on a daily basis.  Usually the same named file but the MD5 checksum gives it
away.

Obviously I new they are malicious sites and that why I posted the URL
obfuscated.

However, it was meant to drive home a point.  A good Social Engineering disguise
will allow
a well crafted malicious site and malware combo to get past one's personal
defenses.  The
anti malware community is working hard with the AV vendors to h\get these new
variants to be
better detected via heuristics.


--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm



Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

David H. Lipman wrote:
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Or you can learn what to trust on the internet and not hope the
software will do it for you as it slows you down.

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Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

darwinist wrote:
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???!!!

boy have you got it wrong...

known virus scanners are essentially a blacklist technology - the best
place to use a blacklist is at the entrance... av software is for
prevention first and foremost, for detection of preventative failures,
and for recovery from preventative failures...

--
"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer,
is there an answer?"

Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

kurt wismer wrote:
[...]
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Anti-virus software is a blacklist applied to what's already on a
computer, so it's already past the entrance. A firewall or secure
client is a whitelist at the door.

Unlike, say, a text-email or an mp3, your default attitude to
executables should not just be to take anything from anyone and try it
out in case you like it. Instead you should whitelist from the start.


Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

darwinist wrote:
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ok, i think there's a bit of a crossed wire here... you seem to be
seeing only 2 possibilities - either it never gets to the actual machine
at all or it gets to the machine *and* gets executed... i'm talking
about the 3rd scenario where you download it to a holding area to be
scanned first before doing anything else with it...

yes it is technically 'inside' the system at that point, but it is just
barely inside the entry point...

--
"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer,
is there an answer?"

Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

kurt wismer wrote:
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You would allow it on your hard disk or in your memory before stopping
it? Why take the risk?

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Re: Anti-Virus Software is like Adult Diapers

darwinist wrote:
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[snip]
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handling new materials (which may or may not be malware) in this way is
no more risky than handling knives... the risk is in the possibility
that i might do something stupid...

malware, ultimately, is a subset of software... it's supposed to *do*
something, therefore it has instructions of some sort, therefore it has
to be executed in some way... so long as i'm careful not to let that
happen there shouldn't be a problem...

--
"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer,
is there an answer?"

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