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- Re: plaintext
June 22, 2003, 8:00 pm
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>> Simply that such an affectation pursued to the degree in your example,
>detracts (well, it
>> soit'nly detracted *me*) from the message the "poem" was trying to convey
>so much that
>> all I could see and all I can recall was the construction. The mind
>boggles as to the
>> results were the author not limited to the width of one page.
>sorry to hear you didn't enjoy the piece that was presented.
>as with many modern poems, the poem was not "trying to convey" a "message".
>form is not an affectation but an extension of the content; they are
If it was not trying to convey a message (and there has to be a word better than
"message") then the whole thing was a complete and utter waste of time and
effort; one may
as well send any form of textual characters, in any order - indeed, in any
The term "message" involves the concept of communication; if all that is
that the idea that the originator has a sticky TAB key, well....
>many poems are not linear; instead they are expressions, projections of
Conveying that is the message.
asking for a "message" in a poem is like asking "what
>does a dragonfly mean?" or "what does a symphony mean?" - there is no
>answer. there is only experience.
Ooops, I seem to have strayed into the alt.zen group. 'scuse me while I go
practise clapping with one hand.
Oh dear, an apostle...
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Beg your pudding while I add to my killfile.
>> >sorry to hear you didn't enjoy the piece that was presented.
>> >as with many modern poems, the poem was not "trying to convey" a
>> >form is not an affectation but an extension of the content; they are
>> If it was not trying to convey a message (and there has to be a word
>> "message") then the whole thing was a complete and utter waste of time and
>effort; one may
>> as well send any form of textual characters, in any order - indeed, in any
>> The term "message" involves the concept of communication; if all that is
>> that the idea that the originator has a sticky TAB key, well....
>words do not always send a "message" though they may indeed communicate. the
>form also communicates.
>think of this: your words above take the form of sentences & communicate a
>in another form the same words - even in the same sequence - may convey
>something else completely.
>modern, postmodern, & experimental poetry, unlike other (for example,
>traditional) poetry, are not didactic or linear.
>much contemporary poetry - as most art - is about making connections between
>things not usually connected, making discoveries; it is proprioceptive,
>organic & doesn't fit into pre-existing forms (however, that is not to say
>that sonnets & villanelles, for example, are not still written sometimes).
>Some of the best poetry since WWII has been influenced by other modern arts,
>such as painting, sculpture, & jazz. It is most often not presented in
>traditional forms such as neat stanzas with each line beginning with a
>capital letter & bumped agains the left margin....the way you (& most of us)
>probably read poetry back in school.
>what is not possible is an equation such as:
>this poem = this meaning
>poems are not a code to be broken or a riddle to be solved. they may
>communicate, they may have a message, but they are not encrypted - they can
>only exist as they are.
>what is the message of a Jackson Pollock painting or of a Coltrane tune?
>They are to be experienced - you can't ascribe a particular "meaning" or
>"message" to either. The same is true for poetry.
>> >many poems are not linear; instead they are expressions, projections
>> >sensory perceptions.
>> Conveying that is the message.
>> asking for a "message" in a poem is like asking "what
>> >does a dragonfly mean?" or "what does a symphony mean?" - there is no
>> >answer. there is only experience.
>> Ooops, I seem to have strayed into the alt.zen group. 'scuse me while I
>go away and
>> practise clapping with one hand.
>Yes, a study of Zen would certainly shed light on modern poetics, much of
>which has been influenced (especially since the 1950s) either directly, or
>indirectly, by Buddhism and other Eastern philosophies.
>if you are interested in learning more about modern poetry & open forms, I
>http://unix.cc.wmich.edu/~cooneys/poems/proj.verse.html projective verse
>Ferlinghetti's essay on modern poetics - especially wonderful is his "What
>http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/ click on any of the links for poems by some
>of the best-known modern poets
>http://www.emptymirrorbooks.com/ excellent resource for Beat Generation &
>modern poetry books & information including poems
>as this has veered waaayyyy away from the subject of "acceptable uses of the
><pre> tag," if you would like to discuss modern poetics further please feel
>free to drop me an email ~
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and PLEASE do not top-post here! if you do so, it is you who will
undoubtedly be killfiled by many in this group.
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