Re: crtics and testers wanted

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It's not "only 18kb"! It loads every state into the page in one go and then
hides them! Takes about 5 mins to load on my modem.

You could just display the links and have separate documents for all the
states brought up in an iframe.

Or you could keep all the divs there, but create them with the
style="display:none" attribute, and don't code the images directly into each
div, so that the browser doesn't load them all in one go, but use javascript
attached to the onclick method of each link to add the images to the
appropriate div the first time the link is clicked - generate the names of
the images - have them in an array, whatever.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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That's what I was wanting to know. Local loading is no problem.
So I'll play around with a few ideas and see if I can work out the kinks.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

Richard pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:
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Took about 15 seconds or so to load on my 2mbps cable connection. That's
slow. I agree with Bagbourne that you should use some scripting to load
and show one state at a time after menu selection.
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The Governor of Pennsylvania is Edward Rendell, not Edgward.

   -This space intentionally left blank.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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Included the style display none thing now and at least the images don't load
all at once and display right away.
What I'd like to do now is to avoid having all 150 images download upon
Only load what's needed on each click.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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They do load all at once.

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Yes, that's what you need to do. Add some javascript to create an image and
add it to the stat's div on the fly. Do not code the <IMG> tag into the div,
create it, and add it only when the user clicks on that state.

Because of the repetetive nature of the data, you can generate most if not
all of it with Javascript. Put the data into an array, and use
document.createElement() and document.createTextNode() calls to generate the
whole lot...

Of course you have to have your images named consistently they ALL have to
be "xx-flag.gif" ot whatever naming scheme you use. Obviously you wouldn't
include the whole URL of the image, I did in my test because they were on
your site.

Have a play around with this for a start:

<style type="text/css">

.flag {

.seal {

<script type="text/javascript" src="jscript/utils.js"></script>
<script type="text/javascript">
displayedState = null;
function createStateImage(state)
 if (displayedState != null)
 { = "none";
 displayedState = document.getElementById(state);
 if (displayedState == null)
  alert('Author has not set up <div id="' + state + '">');
  return false;
 if (typeof displayedState.imagesSet == "undefined")
  var gov = new Image();
  gov.src = " /" + state + "-gov.jpg";
  var flag = new Image();
  flag.className = "flag";
  flag.src = " /" + state + "-flag2.gif";
  var seal = new Image();
  seal.className = "seal";
  seal.src = " /" + state + "-seal.gif";
  document.getElementById(state + "gov").appendChild(gov);
  document.getElementById(state + "flag").appendChild(flag);
  document.getElementById(state + "seal").appendChild(seal);
  displayedState.imagesSet = "true";
 } = ( == "none") ?
"" : "none";
<table border="1" style="height:400px">
<td id="menu0">
<td id="menu1">
<td valign="top" style="width:500px">
<div id="al" style="display:none">
    <td>Governor <br>Bob Riley</td>
    <td id="algov"></td>
    <td class="flag" id="alflag"></td>
    <td class="seal" id="alseal"></td>
<div id="ak" style="display:none">
    <td>Governor <br>Bill Clinton</td>
    <td id="akgov"></td>
    <td class="flag" id="akflag"></td>
    <td class="seal" id="akseal"></td>
<div id="co" style="display:none">
    <td>Governor <br>Bob Riley</td>
    <td id="cogov"></td>
    <td class="flag" id="coflag"></td>
    <td class="seal" id="coseal"></td>


<script type="text/javascript">
 Build the array of links and add them to column 0 or column 1
var stateCodes = "al/ak/co/az".split("/");
var stateNames = "Alabama/Arkansas/Colorado/Arizona".split("/");
var s
var i = 0;
for (s in stateCodes)
 var menu = document.getElementById("menu" + ((i < 25) ? "0" : "1"));
 var link = document.createElement("a"); = "block";
 link.onclick = new Function("", "createStateImage('" + stateCodes[s] + "');
return false;");
 link.href = "#";

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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Thanks. I'll try that out and see what happens.
It's a lot easier to give a working example rather than try to explain it.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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Plain white.

It's bloody awful.  Forget about the way you load the images which is
also terrible, the site is just plain dull.

Of course "local loading is no problem" - the data only has to travel a
few millimetres.

Hywel     Never knowingly understood /

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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I see you've taken this from (which is
absolutely fine).  Unfortunately, that wasn't really designed to do this
kind of thing - it will always download everything because the whole
idea is that if javascript isn't available then the whole page is

Something like would be a much
better template.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

Jacqui or (maybe) Pete wrote:
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You're assuming he has server side scripting available. He might only
have access to static content. My ISP,, only gives us
static html.


Re: crtics and testers wanted

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No, I checked the http headers; he has php available.

BTW, my ISP is the same as yours, and the deal I have with them doesn't
give _any_ webspace or even an email address.  So much for the UK
government's plans to make ISPs record everyone's emails.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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Precisely why I put this up for you all to poke apart and disect and come up
with better suggestions.
At least the script does what I want to happen.
Now if you'ld kindly supply a link that WORKS, I'd have a look at your
proposed template, so far, I can't get to it.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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In Opera 7.11 on Windows it loads fairly quickly, because it loads only the
first three images in Alabama. I click the other links and Opera doesn't
wanna load the pictures even though I have scripting on.

In Internet Explorer 6 on Windows, it takes freakin' ages because I'm on a
<= 14 Kbps connection, and it's loading all the pics. It loaded about 93 and
I closed it, got tired of waiting. The menu stuff works fine of course.

Gecko (Mozilla/K-Meleon/Netscape) seems to work as you intended: images
don't load until they are needed.

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Aesthetically, this site is as boring as damp cement. Learnign doesn't have
to stab students in the eyes with ugly styling.

Try this: go get a decent magazine (not some crappy dirt biking rag with
black and white pages) and find an advertisement by a big-name company like
Sony, Microsoft, Toyota, etc. Look at the ad paying close attention to the
font faces they use, and how they arrange text on the page. Then take a look
at things like margins and colors. Try to mimic their choices and placement
on your site. It'll help you a ton. Don't try to copy the pictures etc.
Please note I'm not telling you to steal a designers style, I'm telling you
to try to learn from a professional's sense of placement and presentation.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

spaghetti wrote:

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Yet the one most important visitor doesn't see your website at all - and
that's the visitor that tells his millions of friends every day.

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The books and magazines are limited - the web isn't. Quite a significant

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FAQs: /
Recommended Hosting: /
Web Standards: /

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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I'll concede that certain websites are akin to the grocery store: helping
you find a product. But many websites *are* the product. How many people
would buy frivolous products like Chicken-in-a-Biscuit crackers if they were
in solid gray paper bag with "Chicken-in-a-Biscuit" written on the front
with a black magic marker?

And most grocery stores (especially the big ones) work hard to make the
shopping experience less annoying. Most grocery stores have remodeled alot
in the last few years, and it shows. Lots of in-store advertising, lots of
bright colors and friendly touches, easier navigation, consistency among
stores, little "cafes" etc. that give the store a homey feel... Compare your
local Tops or Wegman's against what they were like 10 years ago.

Besides, aesthetic beauty is a good thing anywhere. Whether you're designing
napkins or landscaping a trailer park... whatever you're designing... if you
believe people just want "usable" over "beautiful" you will end up making
something ugly and depressing that nobody will want to use/be a part of.

And you'll likely dress funny as well.

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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It worked fine in Netscape Communicator 4.7.
It loaded the first several states, Alabama to
Arkansas and paused right there.

I WOULD have sent you a SCREENSHOT,
(I did, but it bounced,) because of  yur b*llsh*t
anonymous handle.  Guess you are SOL.

Don Boring
Glendora, CA.
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Re: crtics and testers wanted

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The standard usenet etiquette is to post your response here, in the
newsgroup. That way everybody benefits from your response.

Surely the other Richards munged email address should have looked suspicious
to you :-)

Besides, the subject site has been through several reincarnations over the
last couple of days.

Oh, and don't try to email me.


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