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Hi all.  I've been lurking here now and then since the beginning of the
year.  Sometimes it's hard to get a lot out of other posters' examples so
I thought I might delurk a little.

What are your opinions about Nvu?

My opinion is "not bad" but I haven't used anything else.

I started to use it after I had already written the main pages for my
[miserable] project [from heck].  This was to appease Someone who thought
I was too slow partly because I was writing in a text editor.  BTW I'm a
novice at web pages but didn't want to use Frontpage.

At first I was displeased because it was removing ALL my indentation
instead of preserving it as it claimed, and replacing my hex colors with
rgb.  But I stuck to it and adapted Nvu's indentation and locked/read-only
my CSS file and was relatively happy.  Now I've unlocked the CSS file and
it doesn't bother it anymore, not sure why.

Then I found that every page I created from Nvu had this:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Strict//EN">

instead of:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd ">

which makes the W3 validator displeased.  But the most annoying part is
that when I try to paste the latter into the newer pages, Nvu takes it
out and puts the former back in there.  It does NOT do that to the pages
I wrote out before using Nvu, even when I edit them a lot within Nvu.

Do you think a secretarial type person could edit pages easily with Nvu,
or will they mess up the markup trying to get it to look right in the GUI
editor?  I think I'm going to get a lot [more] of grief because my pages are
valid and display well in IE, Camino, Safari, and Opera (Mac), but they
are unbearable in Frontpage's GUI editor, and Someone might try to come
along after me and use Frontpage on them.

Re: Nvu

Huan wrote:

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It's certainly one of the better WYSMAWYG[1] editors out there --
certainly better than using Frontpage, Word, or (heaven forbid!)

There are other WYSMAWYG tools that might give you a similar level
of quality in the finished pages, but not for the same price Nvu

None of the current generation of WYSMAWYG editors will ever give
you anywhere near the same quality as pages hand-coded by someone
who knows what they're doing though. (Because their whole premise
is based on the idea that HTML is a visual language, and that
ideally all browsers should display a given page identically.)

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That is most certainly broken.

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Yes to both!

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Explain to them that you can vouch for the quality of the pages that
you hand over at the end; but that if they break the pages by editing
them with inappropriate tools, or through lack of knowledge, you
cannot and should not be held accountable for this.

1. What You See Might Approximate What You Get.

Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me  ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

Re: Nvu

Toby Inkster wrote:
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Well that is kind of like horse shit.  Bottom line they are ALL text
editors.  If you KNOW how to code, then the wysiwyg interface can in
may cases decrease the time to completion.

Re: Nvu

Travis Newbury wrote:
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Might be better to call it YSWYG (you see what you get) then...

Re: Nvu

jojo wrote:
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A rose is a rose...

Re: Nvu

Toby Inkster wrote:

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You need to be a little more specific as to what type of code you are
referring. I would generally agree with you when referring to any kind
of programmatic code (Javascript, PHP, ASP, etc.), and for the most part
  CSS as well. There are simply too many variables with those.

However, I do not agree with your assessment for (X)HTML generation. A
few minutes of proper setup in the Preferences of Dreamweaver, along
with regular use of a few of the Command options, and it can/will
produce code as clean as any hand coded. I cannot speak with much
accuracy to other applications, however.

That said, there is no substitute for underlying knowledge of, and
ability to produce, raw code. Even if one uses a generator for the most
mundane of tasks, it's important to understand what going on under the hood.


*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

  Kevin Scholl                http://www.ksscholl.com /
  Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
  We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
  the dreams...

Re: Nvu

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This "reformatting" is a bug that is well known with NVu.

I like NVu too -- it produces compliant code but it can be code
"inefficient" so I find myself alternating between text and wys modes to get
it right.

You'll find some good NVu tutorials here:

These are also very good tutorials for generally learning about HTML/ CSS.

Development on NVu seems to have ceased about a year ago. I've read that the
author is now involved with the Mozilla Seamonkey project so we may see an
updated Composer emerge from that.

In the meantime, one version of Nvu has morphed into Kompozer which
supposedly has addressed the re-formatting bug among others. It's at:
http://fabiwan.kenobi.free.fr/kazblog /

Can't vouch for it as I haven't tried it yet.



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