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•  Subject
• Author
• Posted on
• Luigi Donatello Asero
• 06-24-2004
How important is it to associate each cell with the respective header on a
table?
Compare for example:
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmereinsferienwohnungzweisizilien.html

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmereinsferienwohnungzweisizilien.html

Compare what? As far as I can tell these pages are identical.

Are you are talking about the white table at the bottom?  Well this confused
me at first.

I kept trying to determine what the numbers mean. Types of room down and
numbers of different beds in them across? This does not correlate.

After all, for a wardrobe or a kitchen I wouldn't even expect there to *be*
a column detailing how many single beds there are. Area yes, but not beds.
You also fail to mention how many toilets are in the badzimmers :-)

--
Cheers
Richard.

a
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmereinsferienwohnungzweisizilien.html

They are not. The code in the table is not.

confused
Yes.
Why not?

*be*

There is for example a double sofa bed in the living-room.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

May-be I understand now what you mean by writing that
the types of room down and
numbers of different beds in them across does not correlate.

The problem is that I have headers for the columns and for the row, so I am
wondering how I can call the headers for the rows.
I used "t1", "t2" and so on for the headers of the columns.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

am

If we talk for example about the number of beds which is contained in a
cell, this number should be correlated both with the header of the column
and the header of the row shouldn´t it?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

Abandon the table. Think not about the HTML but think what your viewer is
looking at. If a bunch of zero all over the place is confusing to *me* (and
I am used to looking at odd web sites and tables and other things) how is

I would even loose the areas, expecially the decimal points. Bedroom 2 is
11.34 square metres? If we lean on the wall it may expand to 11.35 square
metres. Let the viewer think the room is as big as the picture makes it
look.

Plus, even though it's a lot of room for a dunny, pointing out that that a
badzimmer is only 2 square metres may put people off :-)

Two column table. Left column words, right column images.

[schlafzimmer1, 1 doppelbett][image]
[schlafzimmer2, two kleine bette][image]
[durchgangszimmer][image]
...
[wohnzimmer - a bonus fold out sofa][image]

am

Your viewer does not care how the table is constructed, only how it looks.
Neither do I :-)

--
Cheers
Richard.

(and

I do not think that it is a good solution to abandon the table, it is better
to try to understand how it works.

( see: 11.4.1 Associating header information with data cells
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html
which I am trying to understand!)

I do not think so, there are 2 badrooms in the apartment and some people may
well appreciate to know more about how an aparment looks like when they do
not have any chance of visiting it before they decide if they want to rent
it for their holiday or not. And not all apartments are necessarily as large
as this.

Sorry, I want to give more information, not  just the pictures and the names
of the rooms.

Browsers and search engines might be interested in as the table is
constructed.
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

is
is
better
is
square
a
may
I meant "bedrooms"
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

The headers are really for use by assistive technology (AT) User Agents

I switched my talking browser into German and tried to navigate the
table.

It works fine.

As I move focus from one cell to the next, it prefixes the contents by
the contents of the header at the top of the cell.

So I hear:
Zimmer Schlaflimmer 1
Flasche 18,25m
KleineBette 0
Doppelbett 1
etc.

and so on for each cell as I move backwards and forwards along the row.

In practice, my browser is smart enough to do it without the mark-up,
but it's valuable for those AT UAs that need it.

regards.
--
Jake

a
That should be Zimmer Schlafzimmer. I hope that it was only a spelling
mistake and that the talking browser speaks the right words.

That should be Fläche. Does the talking browser say that they are square
meters?

When it reads the data of the second bedroom, does it say
Zimmer Schlafzimmer 2
Fläche 11,34 and so on?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

Yes. A spelling mistake (I don't speak German .... apart from 2
sentences)

Hard to say as I don't speak German ;-)
It does say 'square metres' when I switch the language to English,
though.

In German it gives the number and adds something that sounds like 'Em
Hofgeshtelter zvai' .... does that mean anything?

Yes.

--
Jake

on
Well, "zvai" is approximately the pronunciation of "zwei" which means "two"
and the other words seems to be "m aufgestellter" May-be that if I wrote
Quadratmeter it would be more clear.
What else is necessary to let the page
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html
accessible to talking browsers?

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmer-ferienwohnung-zwei-sizilien.html

square
"two"

Or  was it already completely accessible to them?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmer-ferienwohnung-zwei-sizilien.html

As I don't speak German it's not really possible for me to say. I would
think that a native German-speaker would be the best person to ask.

If it helps, here's a transcript of your page as 'seen' and spoken by a
talking browser.

http://www.gododdin.demon.co.uk/ng/LU1.TXT

I have prefixed everything spoken in a 'headings' voice by '(H)' and
everything spoken in a 'links' voice by '*'  -- assuming I haven't
missed any.

**The page is spoken in the sequence in which you see it.**

One thing that you should consider on any page with a menu is whether
you should have a 'skip navigation' link placed so that it's spoken
immediately on entry. The 'skip navigation' link will allow the user to

regards.

--
Jake

Do you mean a link to a page without menu and with the same content which
should be placed on all the pages with a menu?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmer-ferienwohnung-zwei-sizilien.html

No. Just a link as the first entry on the page that will allow the user

Something like (in the appropriate language for the page):

<a href="#skip"> <img src="./ONEPIC.GIF" height="1" width="1" alt="Go

The information is invisible to the graphics browser (because a 1-pixel
image is too small to be seen), but the alternative text will be spoken
by the screen-reader/browser -- and seen by a text-only browser.

regards.

--
Jake

Asero

Do you mean somethng like that?
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/test1.html
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmer-ferienwohnung-zwei-sizilien.html

Yes, that's the kind of thing.

You need to lose the border around the 1-pixel image so that it's
'invisible'. Something like this should do it:

.bypass IMG { border: none; }

-----------------------------------------------------

<div class="bypass">
<a href="#skip"> <img src="./ONEPIC.GIF" height="1" width="1"
alt="Bitte, zum Hauptinhalt dieser Seite direkt gehen"></a>
</div>  <!--bypass -->

-----------------------------------------------------

I was thinking. Rather than repeat 'Quadratmeter' in each cell, why

regards.

--
Jake

Asero
by a
whether
to
which
It seems to be easier to lose the border of all the images in the CSS sheet.
Now I do not see any 1-pixel image on the page
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html

> not simply have  "Fläche (Quadratmeter)" as the header for the column?
I have thought about it but does that help those hearing the talking
browser?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/italien-karta.html
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/schlafzimmer-ferienwohnung-zwei-sizilien.html