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Subject Author Date
Your opinion on Javascript Alfred Molon 07-16-2008
Posted by Alfred Molon on July 17, 2008, 12:12 pm
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 In article <droleary.usenet-8B001C.08330817072008@sn-ip.vsrv-
sjc.supernews.net>, Doc O'Leary says...

> I don't think they are, in that CSS hovers can be used to handle most
> reasonable presentation issues like that.

Unless the hover window contains clickable buttons. These could be for
instance buttons for ordering a print or buying an image licence.

> Keeping it mind that search engines are just such users, only a fool
> would require Flash or JavaScript to navigate a site.

Tell it to this guy. His site requires Javascript for navigation:
http://www.michelefalzone.net/

I sometimes have difficulties browsing his site even with Javascript
enabled.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

Posted by Doc O'Leary on July 18, 2008, 9:17 am
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> In article <droleary.usenet-8B001C.08330817072008@sn-ip.vsrv-
> sjc.supernews.net>, Doc O'Leary says...
>
> > I don't think they are, in that CSS hovers can be used to handle most
> > reasonable presentation issues like that.
>
> Unless the hover window contains clickable buttons. These could be for
> instance buttons for ordering a print or buying an image licence.

I'm not seeing the need for JavaScript there. Do you have an example of
what you mean?

> > Keeping it mind that search engines are just such users, only a fool
> > would require Flash or JavaScript to navigate a site.
>
> Tell it to this guy. His site requires Javascript for navigation:
> http://www.michelefalzone.net/
>
> I sometimes have difficulties browsing his site even with Javascript
> enabled.

The really wacky thing about that site is that JS isn't used for the
navigation, but rather to make the *content* visible. If you look at
the source, it's right there at the bottom, but for some reason they
defaulted to requiring JS to see it. It's like they're using a
AJAX-heavy CMS that incorrectly claims it can render a static version,
or maybe they think they're protecting their content with that nonsense.
They get bonus stupidity points for including a this-is-not-a-web-site
warning:

To navigate the website properly, please, do *not* use the back/Forward
browser button but the navigation provided; in addition I strongly
suggest viewing the site at full screen by pressing F11.

--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, easynews.com,
googlegroups.com, greatnowhere.com, heapnode.com, individual.net,
localhost, ntli.net, teranews.com, vif.com, x-privat.org

Posted by 1001 Webs on July 18, 2008, 5:46 pm
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wrote:
>
> > I use Javascript on my sites, but only when straight HTML won't do the
> > job. Pop up windows on hover and drop-down menus are perfect examples.
>
> I don't think they are, in that CSS hovers can be used to handle most
> reasonable presentation issues like that. Where JavaScript really
> shines is for active elements that, as a bonus, have per-user behaviors.
> For example, on one site I have a list of frequently updated items and,
> rather than tediously managing user accounts on the server, I use
> JavaScript to show what is new to a returning visitor.
>
> The big "gotcha" for hover, though, is for people using the new touch
> devices like the iPhone. No mouse == no hover, so you pretty much
> *have* to use JavaScript to implement a click-or-hover behavior if you
> want to target mobile users, and even then you can't do that with an
> element that is otherwise clickable already.
>
> > To accomodate the users with javascript turned off, I always offer a
> > second form of navigation on the pages.
>
> Keeping it mind that search engines are just such users, only a fool
> would require Flash or JavaScript to navigate a site.
>
> --
> My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, easynews.com,
> googlegroups.com, greatnowhere.com, heapnode.com, individual.net,
> localhost, ntli.net, teranews.com, vif.com, x-privat.org

Thank you for your valuable comments. They really feel like a a Breath
of Fresh Air around here.
Nevertheless, I must warn you to expect to be under attack soon from
Stuckle and the rest of smart-alecs.
They don't like at all to be corrected by knowledgeable and
experienced webmasters ...

Take care

Posted by Jerry Stuckle on July 18, 2008, 8:30 pm
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1001 Webs wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>>> I use Javascript on my sites, but only when straight HTML won't do the
>>> job. Pop up windows on hover and drop-down menus are perfect examples.
>> I don't think they are, in that CSS hovers can be used to handle most
>> reasonable presentation issues like that. Where JavaScript really
>> shines is for active elements that, as a bonus, have per-user behaviors.
>> For example, on one site I have a list of frequently updated items and,
>> rather than tediously managing user accounts on the server, I use
>> JavaScript to show what is new to a returning visitor.
>>
>> The big "gotcha" for hover, though, is for people using the new touch
>> devices like the iPhone. No mouse == no hover, so you pretty much
>> *have* to use JavaScript to implement a click-or-hover behavior if you
>> want to target mobile users, and even then you can't do that with an
>> element that is otherwise clickable already.
>>
>>> To accomodate the users with javascript turned off, I always offer a
>>> second form of navigation on the pages.
>> Keeping it mind that search engines are just such users, only a fool
>> would require Flash or JavaScript to navigate a site.
>>
>> --
>> My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, 4ax.com, buzzardnews.com, easynews.com,
>> googlegroups.com, greatnowhere.com, heapnode.com, individual.net,
>> localhost, ntli.net, teranews.com, vif.com, x-privat.org
>
> Thank you for your valuable comments. They really feel like a a Breath
> of Fresh Air around here.
> Nevertheless, I must warn you to expect to be under attack soon from
> Stuckle and the rest of smart-alecs.
> They don't like at all to be corrected by knowledgeable and
> experienced webmasters ...
>
> Take care
>

Sorry, I don't mind being corrected by KNOWLEDGEABLE and EXPERIENCED
webmasters.

That does NOT include shams like YOU.

And in case you haven't noticed - this is a difference of opinion. Not
facts.

But you always were a turd.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================


Posted by Jerry Stuckle on July 16, 2008, 10:24 am
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Alfred Molon wrote:
> At the moment my site uses very little Java or Javascript (mainly the
> dropdown menu on the main and country gallery pages).
>
> I've noticed that some photo gallery sites will display an information
> window with data about the photos when you hover on the thumbnails.
>
> Do you think this would be an example of a good use of Javascript? These
> information windows are not necessary for browsing the site, they just
> display additional information on the thumbnail pages

Hi, Alfred,

Yes I think it's a good use. IMHO, Javascript should add to the
experience, but not be required for the experience. This is a great
example.

And from what I've heard, about 10% of users have javascript turned off
- but that varies widely based on technical experience. It seems those
with more technical experience have it turned off, while those with
little leave it turned on.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================


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