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Will iPhone et al cause a rethink of WM?

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Subject Author Date
Will iPhone et al cause a rethink of WM? Rob Nicholson 11-12-2007
Posted by Rob Nicholson on November 12, 2007, 7:39 am
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I have read several reviews that criticise any Smartphone just because it's
based upon WM, i.e. cut-down Windows like this one:

http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/07/11/11/150229.shtml

Don't get me wrong, I love my HTC S710 but I can also take off my rose
tinted glasses and recognise the flaws and I really can appreciate some of
the comments in the main article. The CPU in my S710 is really a bit under
powered and the WM6 user interface does annoy me a lot sometimes but I'm
sticking with it because I can see the advantages for me. However, I'm
trialling these kind of devices to decide whether we roll our WM6 Smartphone
or go with the crowd and deploy Blackberry. As it stands, I think I'd have
trouble completely defending WM6, it's just too, well clunky.

I'm not trying to act as a troll but do you think that devices like the
iPhone will cause a redesign? I also appreciate the iPhone is not without
it's flaws but boy does it look and feel nice. To you average mobile phone
user that goes a long way.

Cheers, Rob.



Posted by Craig McKe on November 12, 2007, 11:31 am
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Rob

Do agree, but think iphone is overpriced as a business device, did you know that
you can run blackberry software on at S710?
http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?guid=C4D347F5-2558-4FDC-B2B4-6A33F1F8A250

Craig


I have read several reviews that criticise any Smartphone just because it's
based upon WM, i.e. cut-down Windows like this one:

http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/07/11/11/150229.shtml

Don't get me wrong, I love my HTC S710 but I can also take off my rose
tinted glasses and recognise the flaws and I really can appreciate some of
the comments in the main article. The CPU in my S710 is really a bit under
powered and the WM6 user interface does annoy me a lot sometimes but I'm
sticking with it because I can see the advantages for me. However, I'm
trialling these kind of devices to decide whether we roll our WM6 Smartphone
or go with the crowd and deploy Blackberry. As it stands, I think I'd have
trouble completely defending WM6, it's just too, well clunky.

I'm not trying to act as a troll but do you think that devices like the
iPhone will cause a redesign? I also appreciate the iPhone is not without
it's flaws but boy does it look and feel nice. To you average mobile phone
user that goes a long way.

Cheers, Rob.





Posted by Rob Nicholson on November 14, 2007, 10:43 am
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> Do agree, but think iphone is overpriced as a business device, did you
> know that you can run blackberry software on at S710?

The price of the iPhone here in the UK is around the same price as the S710
and the new model so that price comparison is moot. However, in the UK, the
iPhone contract means that it ends up costing £689 for the first year which
is pretty steep. We're kind of used to getting hugely discounted rates on
handsets (sometimes free) with a contact.

So yes, it's overpriced but not sure where it stacks up against top of the
range blackberry devices. Although there isn't a business contact yet here
for iPhone.

But I was thinking more along the lines of the user interface.

Cheers, Rob.



Posted by Todd Allcock on November 12, 2007, 6:28 pm
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At 12 Nov 2007 12:39:25 +0000 Rob Nicholson wrote:
> I have read several reviews that criticise any Smartphone just becau=
se
it's=20
> based upon WM, i.e. cut-down Windows like this one:
>=20
> http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/07/11/11/150229.shtml


Oh, the David Pogue article. I swear that guy gets a check from Apple=

everytime he writes a column!=20

> Don't get me wrong, I love my HTC S710 but I can also take off my ro=
se=20
> tinted glasses and recognise the flaws and I really can appreciate s=
ome
of=20
> the comments in the main article.

Yes and no. Yes, I have problems with WinMo, but no, not the ridiculo=
us
things he writes about.

Like his "free suggestions" for Windows Mobile improvements...
=20
"First of all, a cellphone should not display a =93wait=94 cursor. Eve=
r".

Ok. It should just stop responding so you think it locked up? While
it'd be nice if all smartphones ran Intel dual-core processors, the
realities of battery demands means advanced phones will occasionally b=
e
slow to respond.

"A cellphone should not have a Task Manager. You should never have to
worry about quitting programs because you=92ve used up too much memory=
."

Actually this one frosted me the most! The Shadow has 128MB of RAM, a=
nd
doesn't "run out of memory" as he'd know if he actually USED it rather=

than quickly scanned it for what he felt were defects. The task manag=
er
is not needed by anyone but power users, but we power users WANT it.

Here's MY free tip for Apple: why not listen to your users rather than=

have the hubris to think you know best and expect your users to adapt =
to
your design?=20

> The CPU in my S710 is really a bit under=20
> powered and the WM6 user interface does annoy me a lot sometimes but=

I'm=20
> sticking with it because I can see the advantages for me.

As can I. My problems with WinMo are more conceptual- WinMo devices r=
ely
too much on a connected PC. (But still nowhere as much as the iPhone
relies on an iTunes-equipped PC!) These devices are miniature compute=
rs
with the power and capabilities that desktops had just a few years ago=
,
yet I need a connected PC (or 3rd party software) to change a file
extension, make a media playlist, or edit my Exchange server settings!=
=20

> However, I'm=20
> trialling these kind of devices to decide whether we roll our WM6
> Smartphone or go with the crowd and deploy Blackberry. As it stands,=

> I think I'd have trouble completely defending WM6, it's just too,
> well clunky.


It still needs some polishing, but WinMo's strength is it's malleabili=
ty-
devices like the Treo W's, T-Mo's Shadow, or the HTC Touch show the
"value added" that OEMs can bring to the table, or you can go "plain
vanilla" like the HTC 610 or 710. WinMo allows remote desktop access,=

advanced Exchange synching, VoIP- but of course, that functionality ad=
ds
complexity and a learning curve.

Blackberries are fantastic e-mail devices, but they're essentially one=
-
trick ponies, and add the expense of BES to the organization's IT budg=
et.
=20
> I'm not trying to act as a troll but do you think that devices like
> the iPhone will cause a redesign?

That's a valid question, but I doubt it. Flexibility leads to
complexity. However devices like the iPhone should lead to design
improvements, which I'd argue is what the Shadow and Touch are trying =
to
do- hide the complexity of the WinMo interface with an OEM "task-
oriented" one. This is good and bad. Ease of use is a good thing, bu=
t
so is consistancy. Once you get the hang of the WinMo interface, it's=

easy to adapt to a different model. An HTC Touch user using the "cube=
"
GUI might be stymied by a more traditional HP 510 interface, for examp=
le.

> I also appreciate the iPhone is not without=20
> it's flaws but boy does it look and feel nice. To you average mobile=

phone=20
> user that goes a long way.


Absolutely, but that comes at the expense of capability and flexibilit=
y. =20
Some of the iPhone's "ease of use" comes from a lack of "confusing"
features. Bluetooth support is headset only, so you won't be "confuse=
d"
by complicated PAN or DUN setups or file transfer problems- no tetheri=
ng
options to confuse the user, no "complicated" OTA sync, no errant 3rd-=

party apps to crash the OS, etc. I suspect if a WinMo phone was limit=
ed
to e-mail, a browser, Windows Media Player and a phone, and built arou=
nd
one single piece of hardware, it could be rock solid as well. Hmm-
sounds like a ZunePhone! ;-) =20

Such a closed system would be embarrassing if it was also complicated =
and
unstable. My microwave oven never crashes, and is easy to use as well=
!=20
Unfortunately for stability's sake, WinMo has to function on a variety=
of
devices built by a number of manufacturers with different hardware con=
figs.

Most of the instability I encounter with WinMo is from 3rd-party
software- the QMail newsreader I'm tapping this reply on tends to use =
up
available memory and doesn't release it all, forcing me to reboot if I=

open and close it too many times. That wouldn't be a problem on the
iPhone- it doesn't have an NNTP news client and wouldn't let me instal=
l
one if one existed anyway! =20

Different devices for different needs. The iPhone is a slick iPod pho=
ne
with mini webtablet. Period. The Blackberry is a portable e-
mail/organizer, and WinMo, is, IMHO, the Swiss-Army knife of portable
computing. It can do almost ANYTHING, but does it with amazing medioc=
rity.

No one in their right mind would CHOOSE to use the scissors or
screwdriver in a Swiss-Army knife over a real screwdriver or scissors,=
if
available, but the knife packs a number of functions into one all-
purpose, easy-to-carry device. THAT'S Windows Mobile.

Everyone has a different need for their mobile device. In my case, I
want a laptop-replacement. While it's not perfect, it's as close to
reaching that goal as anything has managed to so far.




Posted by William on November 13, 2007, 9:00 am
Please log in for more thread options
> At 12 Nov 2007 12:39:25 +0000 Rob Nicholson wrote:
>
> > I have read several reviews that criticise any Smartphone just because
> it's
> > based upon WM, i.e. cut-down Windows like this one:
>
> >http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/07/11/11/150229.shtml
>
> Oh, the David Pogue article. I swear that guy gets a check from Apple
> everytime he writes a column!
>
>
>
> > Don't get me wrong, I love my HTC S710 but I can also take off my rose
> > tinted glasses and recognise the flaws and I really can appreciate some
> of
> > the comments in the main article.
>
> Yes and no. Yes, I have problems with WinMo, but no, not the ridiculous
> things he writes about.
>
> Like his "free suggestions" for Windows Mobile improvements...
>
> "First of all, a cellphone should not display a "wait" cursor. Ever".
>
> Ok. It should just stop responding so you think it locked up? While
> it'd be nice if all smartphones ran Intel dual-core processors, the
> realities of battery demands means advanced phones will occasionally be
> slow to respond.
>
> "A cellphone should not have a Task Manager. You should never have to
> worry about quitting programs because you've used up too much memory."
>
> Actually this one frosted me the most! The Shadow has 128MB of RAM, and
> doesn't "run out of memory" as he'd know if he actually USED it rather
> than quickly scanned it for what he felt were defects. The task manager
> is not needed by anyone but power users, but we power users WANT it.
>
> Here's MY free tip for Apple: why not listen to your users rather than
> have the hubris to think you know best and expect your users to adapt to
> your design?
>
>
>
> > The CPU in my S710 is really a bit under
> > powered and the WM6 user interface does annoy me a lot sometimes but
> I'm
> > sticking with it because I can see the advantages for me.
>
> As can I. My problems with WinMo are more conceptual- WinMo devices rely
> too much on a connected PC. (But still nowhere as much as the iPhone
> relies on an iTunes-equipped PC!) These devices are miniature computers
> with the power and capabilities that desktops had just a few years ago,
> yet I need a connected PC (or 3rd party software) to change a file
> extension, make a media playlist, or edit my Exchange server settings!
>
> > However, I'm
> > trialling these kind of devices to decide whether we roll our WM6
> > Smartphone or go with the crowd and deploy Blackberry. As it stands,
> > I think I'd have trouble completely defending WM6, it's just too,
> > well clunky.
>
> It still needs some polishing, but WinMo's strength is it's malleability-
> devices like the Treo W's, T-Mo's Shadow, or the HTC Touch show the
> "value added" that OEMs can bring to the table, or you can go "plain
> vanilla" like the HTC 610 or 710. WinMo allows remote desktop access,
> advanced Exchange synching, VoIP- but of course, that functionality adds
> complexity and a learning curve.
>
> Blackberries are fantastic e-mail devices, but they're essentially one-
> trick ponies, and add the expense of BES to the organization's IT budget.
>
> > I'm not trying to act as a troll but do you think that devices like
> > the iPhone will cause a redesign?
>
> That's a valid question, but I doubt it. Flexibility leads to
> complexity. However devices like the iPhone should lead to design
> improvements, which I'd argue is what the Shadow and Touch are trying to
> do- hide the complexity of the WinMo interface with an OEM "task-
> oriented" one. This is good and bad. Ease of use is a good thing, but
> so is consistancy. Once you get the hang of the WinMo interface, it's
> easy to adapt to a different model. An HTC Touch user using the "cube"
> GUI might be stymied by a more traditional HP 510 interface, for example.
>
>
>
> > I also appreciate the iPhone is not without
> > it's flaws but boy does it look and feel nice. To you average mobile
> phone
> > user that goes a long way.
>
> Absolutely, but that comes at the expense of capability and flexibility.
> Some of the iPhone's "ease of use" comes from a lack of "confusing"
> features. Bluetooth support is headset only, so you won't be "confused"
> by complicated PAN or DUN setups or file transfer problems- no tethering
> options to confuse the user, no "complicated" OTA sync, no errant 3rd-
> party apps to crash the OS, etc. I suspect if a WinMo phone was limited
> to e-mail, a browser, Windows Media Player and a phone, and built around
> one single piece of hardware, it could be rock solid as well. Hmm-
> sounds like a ZunePhone! ;-)
>
> Such a closed system would be embarrassing if it was also complicated and
> unstable. My microwave oven never crashes, and is easy to use as well!
> Unfortunately for stability's sake, WinMo has to function on a variety of
> devices built by a number of manufacturers with different hardware configs.
>
> Most of the instability I encounter with WinMo is from 3rd-party
> software- the QMail newsreader I'm tapping this reply on tends to use up
> available memory and doesn't release it all, forcing me to reboot if I
> open and close it too many times. That wouldn't be a problem on the
> iPhone- it doesn't have an NNTP news client and wouldn't let me install
> one if one existed anyway!
>
> Different devices for different needs. The iPhone is a slick iPod phone
> with mini webtablet. Period. The Blackberry is a portable e-
> mail/organizer, and WinMo, is, IMHO, the Swiss-Army knife of portable
> computing. It can do almost ANYTHING, but does it with amazing mediocrity.
>
> No one in their right mind would CHOOSE to use the scissors or
> screwdriver in a Swiss-Army knife over a real screwdriver or scissors, if
> available, but the knife packs a number of functions into one all-
> purpose, easy-to-carry device. THAT'S Windows Mobile.
>
> Everyone has a different need for their mobile device. In my case, I
> want a laptop-replacement. While it's not perfect, it's as close to
> reaching that goal as anything has managed to so far.

Todd, that's one of the best and clearest discussions of the PDA-Phone
marketplace that I've ever read.

Thank you.

--
WH


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