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Posted by Eric Lindsay on November 28, 2008, 4:26 pm
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> Eric Lindsay wrote:
> > I was thinking more along the line: Web pages on this site do not
> > work with Internet Explorer. This is due to Internet Explorer bugs
> > that Microsoft have declined to correct.
> >
> > Concise and accurate.
>
> Concise, yes. Accurate, yes. But also self defeating. The reason that IE
> has the market share that it has is that it comes already installed on
> most people's computers. The greater majority of users see no reason to
> install a browser when there already is one on the computer when they
> first turn it on. These people won't believe you when you tell them that
> IE has bugs. As far as they can tell, it is your site that isn't working.
Actually Windows and IE seem to come on pretty much every computer I see
in any shop. Well, except some of the Asus EeePC. So I checked why that
was so, and found Microsoft have a reputation for requiring Windows on
all the computers a company manufactures, to get the bulk discount
price. Please note, I do not know for sure that is an accurate
description of what happens.
Where I live (Australia), forcing the purchase of a product from another
manufacturer as a condition to the purchase of an item is called Third
Line Forcing. As far as I can see, it is probably illegal under the
Trade Practices Act, Section 47 (6) and 47 (7). This leads me to wonder
whether anyone has actually complained about it? I would imagine any
complaint would need to come from a retailer or wholesaler, since they
are the initial purchaser of the combined product.
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> I guess it all comes down to how important is it for you to have people
> see your site, vs how important is it for you to use XHTML. You are free
> to use whatever technologies you want to.
At the moment, using XHTML is mostly an interesting test case for me.
But if I find good XML tools, it may get to be a habit.
--
http://www.ericlindsay.com
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Posted by Eric Lindsay on November 28, 2008, 6:57 am
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>
> > While I am barred from using IE
>
> How old is your Mac? Any Intel Mac can run Windows. With Parallels or
> VMWare, you don't even have to reboot.
Both old enough not to have an Intel chip. However since both still work
nicely with the latest Mac OS X, I haven't been looking to replace them.
In fact, the new glossy displays are putting me right off getting a
replacement Macintosh.
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> Hell, even my ancient G4 can run VirtualPC well enough to test a web
> page in IE. It's not something I'd want to use for everyday work, but
> it's good enough to test a web page or three.
Opps, I had forgotten entirely that I could buy a copy of VirtualPC and
a copy of Windows. You are right, if I want to work at it, I could test
web pages in IE.
--
http://www.ericlindsay.com
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Posted by dorayme on November 28, 2008, 5:02 pm
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> Opps, I had forgotten entirely that I could buy a copy of VirtualPC and
> a copy of Windows. You are right, if I want to work at it, I could test
> web pages in IE.
You can get an actual PC for almost nothing that will run the real
problem browser, IE6 ... On modern LCD screens with VGA and DVI (and
ADC) card inputs, you can switch between the PC and the Mac with a
simple press of a button on the panel.
--
dorayme
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Posted by Eric Lindsay on November 28, 2008, 7:15 am
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>
> > One of those problems is IE users. There is a solution for that. IE
> > users need to also get a browser that works the way W3C says browsers
> > should work.
>
> Wake up. Seriously. If you think anyone is going to switch browsers to
> use your site, you are dreaming.
Fine. I don't much care if I have site visitors or not. I don't even
check my visitor statistics. If I happen to have something of use on my
site, and potential visitors can't see if because they have a broken
browser, that is their problem.
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> It's *your* job to cater to your users' needs, not the other way around.
I've done a web page. It is correct by all the standards I can see. If
your browser will not display it, complain to the maker of the broken
browser. Every other browser I have tried seems to work fine. They even
tell me if I have an error. Seems to me I have done my part of the job.
It is the users' job to use the right tool to view web pages.
--
http://www.ericlindsay.com
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Posted by David Mark on November 28, 2008, 7:31 am
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> > > One of those problems is IE users. There is a solution for that. IE
> > > users need to also get a browser that works the way W3C says browsers
> > > should work.
> > Wake up. Seriously. If you think anyone is going to switch browsers to
> > use your site, you are dreaming.
> Fine. I don't much care if I have site visitors or not. I don't even
> check my visitor statistics. If I happen to have something of use on my
> site, and potential visitors can't see if because they have a broken
> browser, that is their problem.
You can't be serious about this. XHTML is a dead language on the
Web. Get over it.
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> > It's *your* job to cater to your users' needs, not the other way around=
.
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> I've done a web page. It is correct by all the standards I can see. If
> your browser will not display it, complain to the maker of the broken
> browser. Every other browser I have tried seems to work fine. They even
> tell me if I have an error. Seems to me I have done my part of the job.
> It is the users' job to use the right tool to view web pages.
With that attitude, you will go far as a Web developer.
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> > I was thinking more along the line: Web pages on this site do not
> > work with Internet Explorer. This is due to Internet Explorer bugs
> > that Microsoft have declined to correct.
> >
> > Concise and accurate.
>
> Concise, yes. Accurate, yes. But also self defeating. The reason that IE
> has the market share that it has is that it comes already installed on
> most people's computers. The greater majority of users see no reason to
> install a browser when there already is one on the computer when they
> first turn it on. These people won't believe you when you tell them that
> IE has bugs. As far as they can tell, it is your site that isn't working.