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Posted by AES/newspost on September 6, 2004, 7:30 pm
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I've just re-scanned most of the 60+ posts in the "Frames are Evil"
thread, and my question, as the admittedly and permanently amateur
creator and maintainer of a simple site, is:
Using only elementary HTML and CSS code, how do I create a
simple "framelike" main page without being evil?
where definition of "how" is
--Example of a skeleton HTML template
--Pointer to a site containing such a skeleton
--Pointer to a site I could link to and learn from its HTML
--Pointer to a manual or guide I can purchase
Instances of any of these will be appreciated . . .
----
[If definitions of "simple" and "framelike" are needed, the basic
objective is a site consisting of:
1) A "main page" ("home page") containing"
(a) A "title pane" (fixed content)
(b) A "navigation pane" (fixed content consisting of
one-word links to 5 or 6 "topic pages")
(c) A "topic pane" in which the selected topic page will
appear when the associated link is clicked
2) The corresponding 5 or 6 six "topic pages" each of which contains a
list (6 or 8 items total) of briefly annotated links to individual
"content pages" (images, text files, PDFs).
3) The associated 30 to 40 "content pages", which are free-standing
HTML files (possibly multi-page), generally including a link back to the
home page. Clicking on any of the topic page links in the topic pane in
the main window should open the associated content page in a new window.
None of the panes on the main page should need scrolling. The main page
can open by default with one particular topic page (likely a "What's
New" topic page) in the topic pane.
I was just figuring out how to do this with Frames. Where can I find
out how to do it in a virtuous but still simple, way?
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Posted by Neal on September 6, 2004, 11:22 pm
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wrote:
> Using only elementary HTML and CSS code, how do I create a
> simple "framelike" main page without being evil?
Quick answer - you don't.
> 1) A "main page" ("home page") containing"
>
> (a) A "title pane" (fixed content)
> (b) A "navigation pane" (fixed content consisting of
> one-word links to 5 or 6 "topic pages")
> (c) A "topic pane" in which the selected topic page will
> appear when the associated link is clicked
Includes and fixed positioning could do it if only IE allowed fixed
positioning. It can be set up to require scrolling to get to the specific
section when needed, and that's hardly a hardship on the user.
> 2) The corresponding 5 or 6 six "topic pages" each of which contains a
> list (6 or 8 items total) of briefly annotated links to individual
> "content pages" (images, text files, PDFs).
This is moot, clearly. You'll have to divide your pages into groups, have
local navigation in the content area, and global navigation in the nav
section.
> 3) The associated 30 to 40 "content pages", which are free-standing
> HTML files (possibly multi-page), generally including a link back to the
> home page. Clicking on any of the topic page links in the topic pane in
> the main window should open the associated content page in a new window.
>
> None of the panes on the main page should need scrolling. The main page
> can open by default with one particular topic page (likely a "What's
> New" topic page) in the topic pane.
Hmm. If you have a shorter viewport than the author, you might have to
scroll anyway, frames or anything.
Well, my opinion is this - there's no harm in having it so the user needs
to scroll up to navigation. If need be, repeat navigation at the bottom so
it's there too. If it's really a pain to scroll up, you may be putting
more content on one page than you need to.
Really, almost all frames offer as a benefit is that the content is always
right there. But scrolling is a basic webpage-reading skill, and it's
expected that the user will be able to scroll the page. So there's no good
reason to offer no-scrolling when the bad side of the technique is far
worse.
(The other benefit of frames is there's no need to reload a frame which is
going to stay the same. But consider that navigation should leave the
current page unclickable, and you see that it's worth it to reload that.
That leaves the masthead of the site, and that should be kept light.)
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Posted by Leif K-Brooks on September 7, 2004, 12:02 am
Please log in for more thread options AES/newspost wrote:
> [snip lengthy description]
> I was just figuring out how to do this with Frames. Where can I find
> out how to do it in a virtuous but still simple, way?
I don't think you fully understand why frames are evil. You've
essentially described the exact functionality of frames -- and then said
that you want to do it without them. Even if that was an achievable
goal, it would still be evil; frames of a different name smell just as
putrid.
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Posted by Mad Bad Rabbit on September 6, 2004, 11:16 pm
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> [...] Even if that was an achievable goal, it would still be evil;
> frames of a different name smell just as putrid.
What about a "portal" UI ; i.e. a webpage emitted by portal servlets?
(though this flunks the 'simple' requirement unless the OP's web
server already has a servlet engine set up)
--
>;K
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Posted by Jan Roland Eriksson on September 7, 2004, 10:13 am
Please log in for more thread options wrote:
>I've just re-scanned most of the 60+ posts in the "Frames are Evil"
>thread, and my question, as the admittedly and permanently amateur
>creator and maintainer of a simple site, is:
>
> Using only elementary HTML and CSS code, how do I create a
> simple "framelike" main page without being evil?
You may be able to pick up a few hints from here...
<http://www.css.nu/articles/floating-boxes.html>
MSIE is too old and broken to understand this one...
<http://www.css.nu/exp/nf-illustration.html>
HAND
--
Rex
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