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Scientists Find That Earth and Mars are Different to the Core

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Scientists Find That Earth and Mars are Different to the Core baalke 06-28-2007
Posted by Aidan Karley on July 29, 2007, 7:18 pm
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In article
Timberwoof wrote:
> Just how did they date the periods of bombardment?
>
Radiometric dating and stratigraphy on lunar rocks in part,
in-filled by crater counting. Some meteorites have poly-phase metamorphic
and/ or igneous textures that fit broadly within the "accumulation and
late heavy bombardment" model. It's not an exact science, but good enough
for give-or-take of a hundred million years.

> Hm. I can understand a smaller body cooling off aster, but why would it
> come to a lower temperature? Except for gravitational effects, aren't
> its impacts as energetic as those into a larger body? Are those effects
> what would account for that difference?
>
The kinetic energy of an incoming meteorite increases as the mass
of the primary increases. Think of it the other way around : to raise a
1kilo meteorite off the Earth to "infinity" (or Pluto, which is an
approximation to infinity) will take a certain amount of energy ; double
the mass of the Earth and the same mass will need twice as much energy to
be raised to infinity. Turn the rocks around now and they'll return their
respective loads of kinetic energy to the planet they left.
The energy delivered per kilo of the primary (Earth, Mars,
whatever) doesn't change (within reason, assuming no gross changes in
density, but remember that Earth is also denser than Mars due to it's own
gravitational compression). But the region of space that is "hoovered
clean" by the planetesimals is bigger for bigger planetesimals, so the
lumps of kinetic energy arrive more frequently, the aggregating
planetesimal has less time to radiate from proportionately less surface
area before the next lump of kinetic energy impacts.

--
Aidan Karley, FGS,
Aberdeen, Scotland
A light wave is more like a crime wave than a water wave.


Posted by Stuart on August 7, 2007, 12:48 am
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On Jul 17, 12:12 pm, Timberwoof
>
> > Yahoo wrote:
> > > Perhaps mars never had a plate system like earth, but if it did,
> > > and the above is kosher, it was a bit different from our
> > > core-mantle-crustal plate movement system, I would guess.
> > There is (disputed) evidence for something plate-tectonic-like
> > happening
> > early in Mars history. A little south of the equator and covering a
> > bit less than a quadrant of the equator, there is an area of parallel
> > lines of differing magnetic intensity which is cross-cut and little
> > affected by the cratering, so pre-dates the cratering.
>
> You mean there are craters in the region, but no magnetic anomalies
> correlate with them?
>
> > That puts it
> > sometime between 4565 million years (construction of the planets) and
> > approximately 3800 million years (end of the Late Heavy Bombardment,
> > from Lunar impact metamorphism ages).
>
> Just how did they date the periods of bombardment?

Not with particularly great precision.

Basically I believe it is referenced to the moon and the few age
determinations of lunar rocks.
This then allows some dates to be assigned to the relative time scaled
infered from crater
studies.

Stuart


>
> > And it *looks* very like
> > the classic Reykjanes Ridge magnetic anomaly pattern.
>
> > However ... with Mars being so much smaller than the Earth,
> > the internal
> > temperatures are much lower, the initial heating by accretion much
> > lower. Which changes pretty much all the details from a plate
> > tectonic point of view.
>
> Hm. I can understand a smaller body cooling off aster, but why would it
> come to a lower temperature? Except for gravitational effects, aren't
> its impacts as energetic as those into a larger body? Are those effects
> what would account for that difference?
>
> > > But one thing is for certain, today, mars is geologically dead. No
> > > volcanoes, no plate movement.
>
> > Almost certain. The recently announced (suspected) "skylight"
> > openings
> > into Martian lava tubes suggests that there's still some geological
> > life in there ; there have been reports of transient clouds on the
> > summits of the Tharsis volcanos which may be out-gassing ; the annual
> > (Mars years!) movement of mass from one pole to the other is bound to
> > have some effect ; and of course, there's the continuing aeolian
> > deposition and re-working. This parrot hasn't quite fallen off it's
> > perch. Yet.
>
> --
> Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>http://www.timberwoof.com
> "When you post sewage, don't blame others for
> emptying chamber pots in your direction." =8BChris L.
> an important web site:http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/



Posted by George on June 28, 2007, 1:38 pm
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> **Contact data appear below**
>
> Scientists find that Earth and Mars are different to the core
> Science and Technology Facilities Council
> June 28, 2007
>
> Research comparing silicon samples from Earth, meteorites and
> planetary
> materials, published in Nature (28th June 2007), provides new evidence
> that the Earth's core formed under very different conditions from
> those
> that existed on Mars. It also shows that the Earth and the Moon have
> the
> same silicon isotopic composition supporting the theory that atoms
> from
> the two mixed in the early stages of their development.
>
> This latest research which was carried out by scientists from Oxford
> University along with colleagues from University of California, Los
> Angeles (UCLA) and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich
> (ETH) compared silicon isotopes from rocks on Earth with samples from
> meteorites and other solar system materials. This is the first time
> that
> isotopes have been used in this way and it has opened up a new line of
> scientific investigation into how the Earth's core formed.
>
> On Earth rocks that make up volcanoes and mountain ranges and underlie
> the ocean floor are made of silicate - compounds made of silicon and
> oxygen linked with other kinds of atoms. Silicate dominates down to a
> depth of 2,900 km - roughly half way to the centre of the Earth. At
> this
> point there is an abrupt boundary with the dense metallic iron core.
> Studies by Birch in the 1950's demonstrated that the outer core had a
> density too low to be made of pure iron and that it must also be made
> up
> of some lighter elements (see notes to editors for further details).
>
> Research team member, Bastian Georg, a post doctoral researcher from
> Oxford University's Earth Sciences Department said, "We dissolved
> meteorites, provided by the Natural History Museum in London, in order
> to compare their isotopic composition with those of rocks from the
> Earth. The silicon was separated from other elements and the atomic
> proportions of isotopes measured using a particularly sophisticated
> mass
> spectrometer at the ETH in Zurich".
>
> Professor Alex Halliday, also from Oxford University explains, "We
> were
> quite startled at our results which showed that the heavier isotopes
> from silicate Earth samples contained increased proportions of the
> heavier isotopes of silicon. This is quite different from meteorites
> from the silicate portions of Mars and the large Asteroid Vesta -
> which
> do not display such an effect even though these bodies also have an
> iron
> core."
>
> Silicate samples from Mars and Vesta are identical to a primitive
> class
> of meteorites called chondrites that represent average solar system
> material from small "planetesimals" that never underwent core
> formation.
>
> Professor Halliday continues, "The most likely explanation is that,
> unlike Mars and Vesta, the Earth's silicon has been divided into two
> sorts - a portion that became a light element in the Earth's core
> dissolved in metal and the greater proportion which formed the
> silicon-oxygen bonded silicate of the Earth's mantle and crust."
> At depths the silicates change structure to denser forms so the
> isotopic
> make-up would depend on the pressure at which metal and silicate
> separate. Quantifying this effect is the subject of ongoing studies.
> Co-author on the paper Edwin Schauble from UCLA, has produced
> preliminary calculations that show that the isotopic effects found are
> of the right direction and magnitude.
>
> This research provides new evidence that the Earth's core formed under
> different conditions from those that existed on Mars. This could be
> explained in part by the difference in mass between the two planets.
> With Earth being eight times larger than Mars the pressure of core
> formation could be higher and different silicate phases may have been
> involved. The mass of a planet also affects the energy that is
> released
> as it accretes (or grows).
>
> The Earth accreted most of its mass by violent collisions with other
> planets and planetary embryos. The bigger the planet, the greater the
> gravitational attraction and the higher the temperatures that are
> generated as the kinetic energy of impacting objects is converted to
> heat. Some have proposed that the outer Earth would have periodically
> become a "magma ocean" of molten rock as a result of such extreme high
> temperature events.
>
> There is evidence that Mars stopped growing in the first few million
> years of the solar system and did not experience the protracted
> history
> of violent collisions that affected the Earth. There already exists
> compelling evidence for relatively strong magnetic fields early in
> martian history but a thorough understanding of the martian core must
> await geophysical measurements by future landers. It is however
> thought
> that the core of Mars is proportionally smaller than that of the Earth
> and it probably formed under lower pressures and temperatures.
>
> The research also shows that the Moon has the same silicon isotopic
> composition as the Earth. This cannot be caused by high pressure core
> formation on the Moon which is only about one percent of the mass of
> the
> Earth. However, it is consistent with the recent proposal that the
> material that made the Moon during the giant impact between the
> proto-Earth and another planet, usually called "Theia", was
> sufficiently
> energetic that the atoms of the disk from which the Moon formed mixed
> with those from the silicate Earth. This means the silicon in the
> silicate Earth must have already had a heavy isotopic composition
> before
> the Moon formed about 40 million years after the start of the solar
> system.
>
> The research was supported from grants provided by the UK's Science
> and
> Technology Facilities Council, and the USA's and Switzerland's
> National
> Science Foundation.
>
> Contacts
> Gill Ormrod - Science and Technology Facilities Council Press Office
> Tel: 01793 442012. Email: gill.ormrod@stfc.ac.uk
>
> Pete Wilton - Oxford University Press Office
> Tel: 01865 283877
> Email : pete.wilton@admin.ox.ac.uk
>
> UK Science contact
> Professor Alex Halliday - Department of Earth Science, Oxford
> University
> Tel: 07769728153
> Email: alexh@earth.ox.ac.uk
>
> Notes to Editors
> The information in this release in based on the following Nature
> paper,
> which appears in 28th June issue.
>
> Silicon in the Earth's core
> R Bastian Georg 1,2, Alex N. Halliday 1, Edwin A Schauble 3 and Ben C
> Reynolds 2.
> 1. Department of Earth Sciences, University of Oxford 2. Department of
> Earth Sciences, ETH Zentrum, Zurich 3. Department of Earth and Space
> Science, University of California, Los Angeles.
>
> In 1952 the distinguished Harvard geophysicist Francis Birch showed
> that
> the Earth's liquid outer core, where the magnetic field is generated,
> is
> chemically different from the solid metallic iron inner core that
> occupies the very centre of the Earth. Birch argued that the outer
> core
> had a density that was too low to be made of pure iron; it had to
> contain several percent of a lighter element or elements of lower
> atomic
> weight. Since then scientists have sought to determine what these
> light
> elements are and what their concentrations tell us about the
> conditions
> of core formation.
>
> The Science and Technology Facilities Council ensures the UK retains
> its
> leading place on the world stage by delivering world-class science;
> accessing and hosting international facilities; developing innovative
> technologies; and increasing the socio-economic impact of its research
> through effective knowledge-exchange partnerships.
>
> The Council has a broad science portfolio including Astronomy,
> Particle
> Physics, Particle Astrophysics, Nuclear Physics, Space Science,
> Synchrotron Radiation, Neutron Sources and High Power Lasers. In
> addition the Council manages and operates three internationally
> renowned
> laboratories:
> * The Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Oxfordshire
> * The Daresbury Laboratory, Cheshire
> * The UK Astronomy Technology Centre, Edinburgh
> The Council gives researchers access to world-class facilities and
> funds
> the UK membership of international bodies such as the European
> Laboratory for Particle Physics (CERN), the Institute Laue Langevin
> (ILL), European Synchrotron Radiation Facility (ESRF), the European
> organisation for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere
> (ESO)
> and the European Space Agency (ESA). It also contributes money for the
> UK telescopes overseas on La Palma, Hawaii, Australia and in Chile,
> and
> the MERLIN/VLBI National Facility, which includes the Lovell Telescope
> at Jodrell Bank Observatory.

Thanks for posting this, Ron. It answers a lot of my questions.

George



Posted by Jan Panteltje on June 28, 2007, 2:17 pm
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On a sunny day (Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:28:36 -0700) it happened
baalke@earthlink.net wrote in

>Silicate samples from Mars and Vesta are identical to a primitive
>class of meteorites called chondrites that represent average solar system
>material from small "planetesimals" that never underwent core
>formation.
>
>Professor Halliday continues, "The most likely explanation is that,
>unlike Mars and Vesta,

The _most_ likely explanation is that he meteorites were not from mars
in the fist place.
We need real samples


Posted by George on June 28, 2007, 4:48 pm
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> On a sunny day (Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:28:36 -0700) it happened
> baalke@earthlink.net wrote in
>
>>Silicate samples from Mars and Vesta are identical to a primitive
>>class of meteorites called chondrites that represent average solar system
>>material from small "planetesimals" that never underwent core
>>formation.
>>
>>Professor Halliday continues, "The most likely explanation is that,
>>unlike Mars and Vesta,
>
> The _most_ likely explanation is that he meteorites were not from mars
> in the fist place.
> We need real samples

We'll wait here while you go get some.

George



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