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Subject Author Date
SATA Laptops? Dan 04-01-2005
Posted by Dan on April 1, 2005, 5:17 pm
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When are SATA laptops going to hit the mainstream?


Posted by J. Clarke on April 1, 2005, 11:05 pm
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Dan wrote:

> When are SATA laptops going to hit the mainstream?

What difference does it make? There is no benefit of any kind to be
obtained by using SATA in a laptop.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


Posted by Dorothy Bradbury on April 2, 2005, 2:41 pm
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The benefit of SATA 2.5" disks is mainly in 2 areas:
o New laptop SATA chipsets might offer RAID for them
o SATA 2.5" HD may support NCQ/TCQ - which re-orders (slow) seeking

The migration is eventually to twin 1.8" SATA drives for laptops,
allowing users to run them in RAID-1 (good) or RAID-0 (adventure).

NCQ/TCQ offers a 10-15% benefit in re-ordering seeks - but requires
support in the HD + Chipset + OperatingSystem. It's what SCSI does.
Electromechanical seeking is a major bottleneck in terms of speed.
--
Dorothy Bradbury




Posted by J. Clarke on April 2, 2005, 10:32 am
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Dorothy Bradbury wrote:

> The benefit of SATA 2.5" disks is mainly in 2 areas:
> o New laptop SATA chipsets might offer RAID for them

IDE chipsets offer RAID and there are in fact laptops that have RAID onboard
now. So SATA gains you nothing there.

> o SATA 2.5" HD may support NCQ/TCQ - which re-orders (slow) seeking

I have yet to see NCQ/TCQ demonstrate any real-world benefits on single user
machines.

> The migration is eventually to twin 1.8" SATA drives for laptops,

No, the migration is, perhaps eventually to single 1.8" drives in laptops
allowing for smaller, lighter machines. If there was any demand for RAID
on laptops then the ones that have it would be more popular.

> allowing users to run them in RAID-1 (good) or RAID-0 (adventure).
>
> NCQ/TCQ offers a 10-15% benefit in re-ordering seeks - but requires
> support in the HD + Chipset + OperatingSystem. It's what SCSI does.
> Electromechanical seeking is a major bottleneck in terms of speed.

So please provide a reference to tests that show that there is any
difference in function that is perceptible to the user when NCQ is enabled
on a single-user machine with a single drive. Not benchmarks that show
that in some arcane ubernerdly sense there is a "performance improvement"
but something that the guy sitting at the machine running code other than
benchmarks actually sees.

This is an example of nerds seeking nerdware for nerdly reasons.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


Posted by Quaoar on April 2, 2005, 10:44 am
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J. Clarke wrote:
> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
>
>> The benefit of SATA 2.5" disks is mainly in 2 areas:
>> o New laptop SATA chipsets might offer RAID for them
>
> IDE chipsets offer RAID and there are in fact laptops that have RAID
> onboard now. So SATA gains you nothing there.
>
>> o SATA 2.5" HD may support NCQ/TCQ - which re-orders (slow) seeking
>
> I have yet to see NCQ/TCQ demonstrate any real-world benefits on
> single user machines.
>
>> The migration is eventually to twin 1.8" SATA drives for laptops,
>
> No, the migration is, perhaps eventually to single 1.8" drives in
> laptops allowing for smaller, lighter machines. If there was any
> demand for RAID on laptops then the ones that have it would be more
> popular.
>
>> allowing users to run them in RAID-1 (good) or RAID-0 (adventure).
>>
>> NCQ/TCQ offers a 10-15% benefit in re-ordering seeks - but requires
>> support in the HD + Chipset + OperatingSystem. It's what SCSI does.
>> Electromechanical seeking is a major bottleneck in terms of speed.
>
> So please provide a reference to tests that show that there is any
> difference in function that is perceptible to the user when NCQ is
> enabled on a single-user machine with a single drive. Not benchmarks
> that show that in some arcane ubernerdly sense there is a
> "performance improvement" but something that the guy sitting at the
> machine running code other than benchmarks actually sees.
>
> This is an example of nerds seeking nerdware for nerdly reasons.

A 10K rpm IDE drive would be a good choice. If there were any. SATA
looks like a solution to cabling in smaller cases, maybe. Sort of like
PCI-Express: new tek looking for a driving force.

Q




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