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Posted by Ben Bullock on May 19, 2008, 11:00 pm
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> Yes, I have tried that as well, and decided to give up on Usenet
> entirely (well, almost).
Typical addict talk. If you were going to give up you would have given
up already instead of keeping on posting (three times now) about how
you're going to give up. I'll bet you even post a followup to this.
> Too many people who want free help on their own terms.
Aw shucks!
> I don't mind the free part, but I do mind that instead of a
> "thank you" one might get a personal attack instead.
What I have seen here is lots of people coming in to get help and then
getting fairly unpleasant responses from some of the "regulars". It's
hardly surprising that people are often too scared to post a follow
up.
> Yup, the people who need help insist too hard on getting help, and
> forgot often that this is not a help desk.
I don't notice it. What I notice here as a general pattern is that
many random people come in, ask just one question, then leave. I'm
sure that the reason some of them leave is because they're alarmed or
confused by many of the responses they get.
> People who want to help often
> get carried away: they have reserved a certain amount of time to post
> every day, and if there is nothing to post, they look closer at other
> posts.
Translation: the "regulars" get bored and decide to start harassing
people, following up posters with lots of pointless, whiney complaints
about trivial things.
> I learned Perl with Perl 4, and to me it was not a big step to Perl 5.
> All new things where just - to me, and what I can recall from that time
> - logical extensions to Perl 4. With Perl 6 I don't have that feeling.
> To me it looks more like a new language based on Perl 5. (Or: a logical
> rewrite of Perl 5 instead of a logical extension).
My guess is that you don't really know anything about Perl 6, so
perhaps your IMNSHO should be IMHO.
--
perl -e'@a=qw/Harder Better Faster Stronger/;use Time::HiRes "ualarm";$|=1;
$t=432250;@v=("Work It","Make It","Do It","Makes Us");sub w@z=(0,2,
4,6);@f=split"/","More Than/Ever/Hour/After/Our/Work Is/Never/Over";@e=((map{
join(":",@f[$_,$_+1])}@z),"");@w=map"$v[$_]:$a[$_]",0..3;@h=(@w,@e);@j=w(5);
@t=(@v,@j,@a,@j);@l=(@t,@f[@z],@j,(map@z),@j,@t,@w,@j,@e,w(4),
(@h)x6,w(9),(@h)x7);ualarm$t,$t;$SIG=\&b;while(1){}sub b{print p()}
sub p{if(($c++)%2){exit if!@l;if($_=shift@l)else{
"$_\n"}}}elsif($s){" $s\n",$s=""}}'
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Posted by David Combs on May 22, 2008, 2:04 am
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>
>> John Bokma wrote:
>>
>
>[..]
>
>>> From what I've read, written by Uri, it's somewhat his writing style.
>>
>> I don't think it's just his writting style. Many times he just jumps
>> in to defend someone or something and often takes it way too far. He's
>> of the type that doesn't want to see things through any other lens
>> than his own.
>
>Yup, that's online discussing stuff for you. I am a little like that too
>I guess, and I see this behavior a lot. I have little doubt that if you
>meet those people IRL they are really nice people. Also, dealing every
>day with people who are too lazy to even pick a decent subject, and
>expect that "the Usenet people" act as their private help desk (free at
>that), makes someone not always replying in a nice way, even to serious
>questions (it's the main reason why I am giving up on Usenet again (and
>permanently this time), real soon).
No, no, no, NO!, damnit, NO!
Can't do that -- you're NEEDED here, John.
You guys constitute an *invaluable* resource for, what, maybe thousands
of people. While you answer one guy's questions, etc, there's a whole
bunch of us looking on, taking advantage of the (needed) extra education
we get here.
Any one of you gurus quit, and we all suffer.
No sweat, you say, there's plenty of others (what -- 10, 20 or so) who
can equally well answer these questions.
Maybe so -- but it cuts down on the among-gurus conversation, which
leads to all kinds of interesting pearisms, etc.
If some guy is bothering you, nagging you, being nasty, warn him
or her once, and if he or she persists in the same mode, do the
usual PLONK! action we've gotten used to seeing here.
Please, you guys stick around.
Heck, we could give a party for your guys at yapc! (Unfortunately
I can't be there.)
Anyway, you (and the rest of you) *are* appreciated, giving up
all that time to be of service here.
THANKS!
David
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Posted by Gordon Etly on May 22, 2008, 12:02 pm
Please log in for more thread options David Combs wrote:
> > Yup, that's online discussing stuff for you. I am a little like that
> > too I guess, and I see this behavior a lot. I have little doubt that
> > if you meet those people IRL they are really nice people. Also,
> > dealing every day with people who are too lazy to even pick a decent
> > subject, and expect that "the Usenet people" act as their private
> > help desk (free at that), makes someone not always replying in a
> > nice way, even to serious questions (it's the main reason why I am
> > giving up on Usenet again (and permanently this time), real soon).
> No, no, no, NO!, damnit, NO!
>
> Can't do that -- you're NEEDED here, John.
>
> You guys constitute an *invaluable* resource for, what, maybe
> thousands of people. While you answer one guy's questions, etc,
> there's a whole bunch of us looking on, taking advantage of the
> (needed) extra education we get here.
... <snip rest of brown nosing>
Yes, one should be appreciative of anyone who offers you help. But
people like John, who complain about "lazy" or ungrateful people, are
misrepresenting reality. The people who fit into that description would
be of a minority. Many people who receive decent help seem quite
thankful. What I see happening, though, is some people, who otherwise
offer actual help, taking out some frustrations from dealings with
someone else on people who clearly didn't deserve it, and then refuse to
admit any wrong doing and then other people come in to blindly defend
them.
--
G.Etly
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Posted by Jürgen Exner on May 22, 2008, 12:13 pm
Please log in for more thread options [nothing of consequence]
killfile
jue
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Posted by Ben Bullock on May 16, 2008, 9:12 am
Please log in for more thread options On Wed, 14 May 2008 21:59:10 +0000, John Bokma wrote:
> I wonder why people are so eager to get Perl6.
I suppose the same reason people pay more money to get the latest TV or
camera or something? Or the same reason people buy a newspaper even
though they bought one the day before? People are always interested in
new things.
> It's done when it's done.
If you try to sound too nonchalant about it, I wonder why you aren't
interested. If you use Perl, it's natural to wonder about the next major
version. Your attitude is just a bit weird.
> What's missing in Perl5? A lot of Perl6 features are available via
> modules. Personally I see Perl6 more like a new language than more of
> the same (Perl). If you want to bite your teeth in a new language, there
> are plenty to pick from.
So you're telling people to pick a new language rather than Perl, such as
PHP, Python, Ruby, or JavaScript?
I discovered that Perl six has a funny new regex operator \N which
replaces . and no more /s and /m, and the . now equals [.\n]. Yes I would
like to try this new language out, what is so strange about that?
> And last time I checked, there was plenty of room for help *with* Perl.
> If I have more time available, I'll want to look into that. From what
> I've read so far, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to actually
> help with Perl6, there are plenty of things to do that require just some
> good programming skills.
I didn't read this information, so perhaps you can tell us where we can
read it.
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