Click here to get back home

Permissions - local

 HomeNewsGroups | Search | About
 microsoft.public.windows.server.security    Post an article   get this group's latest topics as an RSS feed add this group's latest topics to your My MSN content add this group's latest topics to your My Yahoo content
Subject Author Date
Permissions - local Bad Beagle 05-25-2006
---> Re: Permissions - local Joe Richards [M...05-25-2006
Posted by Bad Beagle on May 25, 2006, 10:43 am
Please log in for more thread options
I understand the concept of AGDLP for domain permissions but is there any
benefit or issue with using the same DL groups when apply local permissions?
For example I have a Group called G-HR which is a member of DL-HR and I need
to make G-HR group local administrator permissions on a machine - should I
use DL-HR or G-HR? Any difference?



Posted by Joe Richards [MVP] on May 25, 2006, 2:05 pm
Please log in for more thread options
This is probably going to start an argument but I have never thought that AGDLP
or UGLy or whatever people want to call it was ever any good for a mechanism for
assigning permissions UNLESS you were trying to implement some sort of role
based scheme and even then I dislike it because the person who is responsible
for the resource security is getting too far from the management of the
security. I.E. They control their local group but have no say over the global
groups that get nested into it.

I am and have been since about 1996 a huge fan of placing users directly into
the domain local or machine local groups where the get their permissions from.
This was said to be a great model for a master/resource or multiple-master
resource domain design and that couldn't have been further from the truth as I
managed a very huge multi-master environment and trying to manage groups in this
way makes no sense. It also doesn't make sense in a single domain structure as
well, so outside of the idea of role based security I don't see anywhere where
it should be used.


PLus... I think as we get more and more into issues with token and kerberos
bloat issues more and more people are going to come over to my way of thinking
about this problem unless Microsoft does some major restructuring in how groups
are handled in general.

Regardless of what you do, it is a policy decision (or technical if you have a
huge number of groups because you seriously need to worry about token and kerb
bloat then) and whatever you decide make sure to follow explicitely.

joe

--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm



Bad Beagle wrote:
> I understand the concept of AGDLP for domain permissions but is there any
> benefit or issue with using the same DL groups when apply local permissions?
> For example I have a Group called G-HR which is a member of DL-HR and I need
> to make G-HR group local administrator permissions on a machine - should I
> use DL-HR or G-HR? Any difference?
>
>

Posted by MC on May 30, 2006, 6:16 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Joe, you wrote about an interesting issue in Kerberos authentication.
I have users which are members of about 250 groups (nested) and got troubles
logging on to several systems.
What is the maximum number of groups a user can be member of ?

thanks
MC



> This is probably going to start an argument but I have never thought that
> AGDLP or UGLy or whatever people want to call it was ever any good for a
> mechanism for assigning permissions UNLESS you were trying to implement
> some sort of role based scheme and even then I dislike it because the
> person who is responsible for the resource security is getting too far
> from the management of the security. I.E. They control their local group
> but have no say over the global groups that get nested into it.
>
> I am and have been since about 1996 a huge fan of placing users directly
> into the domain local or machine local groups where the get their
> permissions from. This was said to be a great model for a master/resource
> or multiple-master resource domain design and that couldn't have been
> further from the truth as I managed a very huge multi-master environment
> and trying to manage groups in this way makes no sense. It also doesn't
> make sense in a single domain structure as well, so outside of the idea of
> role based security I don't see anywhere where it should be used.
>
>
> PLus... I think as we get more and more into issues with token and
> kerberos bloat issues more and more people are going to come over to my
> way of thinking about this problem unless Microsoft does some major
> restructuring in how groups are handled in general.
>
> Regardless of what you do, it is a policy decision (or technical if you
> have a huge number of groups because you seriously need to worry about
> token and kerb bloat then) and whatever you decide make sure to follow
> explicitely.
>
> joe
>
> --
> Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
> Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
> www.joeware.net
>
>
> ---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
>
> http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
>
>
>
> Bad Beagle wrote:
>> I understand the concept of AGDLP for domain permissions but is there any
>> benefit or issue with using the same DL groups when apply local
>> permissions? For example I have a Group called G-HR which is a member of
>> DL-HR and I need to make G-HR group local administrator permissions on a
>> machine - should I use DL-HR or G-HR? Any difference?



Posted by Joe Richards [MVP] on May 30, 2006, 9:06 pm
Please log in for more thread options
Search the MSKB, there are about 4 or 5 articles on this. The answer is
"it depends". It varies by OS and bin levels due to various changes.

--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm



MC wrote:
> Joe, you wrote about an interesting issue in Kerberos authentication.
> I have users which are members of about 250 groups (nested) and got troubles
> logging on to several systems.
> What is the maximum number of groups a user can be member of ?
>
> thanks
> MC
>
>
>
>> This is probably going to start an argument but I have never thought that
>> AGDLP or UGLy or whatever people want to call it was ever any good for a
>> mechanism for assigning permissions UNLESS you were trying to implement
>> some sort of role based scheme and even then I dislike it because the
>> person who is responsible for the resource security is getting too far
>> from the management of the security. I.E. They control their local group
>> but have no say over the global groups that get nested into it.
>>
>> I am and have been since about 1996 a huge fan of placing users directly
>> into the domain local or machine local groups where the get their
>> permissions from. This was said to be a great model for a master/resource
>> or multiple-master resource domain design and that couldn't have been
>> further from the truth as I managed a very huge multi-master environment
>> and trying to manage groups in this way makes no sense. It also doesn't
>> make sense in a single domain structure as well, so outside of the idea of
>> role based security I don't see anywhere where it should be used.
>>
>>
>> PLus... I think as we get more and more into issues with token and
>> kerberos bloat issues more and more people are going to come over to my
>> way of thinking about this problem unless Microsoft does some major
>> restructuring in how groups are handled in general.
>>
>> Regardless of what you do, it is a policy decision (or technical if you
>> have a huge number of groups because you seriously need to worry about
>> token and kerb bloat then) and whatever you decide make sure to follow
>> explicitely.
>>
>> joe
>>
>> --
>> Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
>> Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
>> www.joeware.net
>>
>>
>> ---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---
>>
>> http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> Bad Beagle wrote:
>>> I understand the concept of AGDLP for domain permissions but is there any
>>> benefit or issue with using the same DL groups when apply local
>>> permissions? For example I have a Group called G-HR which is a member of
>>> DL-HR and I need to make G-HR group local administrator permissions on a
>>> machine - should I use DL-HR or G-HR? Any difference?
>
>

Similar ThreadsPosted
Re: Copying Local Account Permissions May 9, 2008, 6:50 am
Re: Copying Local Account Permissions May 9, 2008, 2:39 pm
Logon Script set permissions on local directory September 7, 2005, 10:27 am
What permissions to change local printer port June 30, 2008, 2:41 pm
local group / global group permissions problem August 18, 2005, 12:42 pm
OpenRowset : DSN : file-system permissions : Local System March 14, 2008, 10:23 am
Is local system account member of local Administrators group? June 21, 2005, 11:33 am
ntfs permissions, ownership, adding permissions January 13, 2006, 2:03 pm
Share permissions conflicting with NTFS permissions May 18, 2006, 1:16 pm
Local Administrators September 1, 2006, 9:55 am

Our other projects:

Art Dolls, Fairies and Mermaids - Sunnyfaces.net

Roy's Linux, Programming and Search Engines messages

1-Script XML SitemapXML Sitemap